Adultery and Being a Buddhist

A forum for discussion of Buddhist ethics.
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Nemo
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Nemo » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:04 pm

Tone policing bull shit is annoying and supports the status quo. http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/ton ... privilege/

boda
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by boda » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:46 pm

Nemo wrote:I had an affair that turned into being married to both of them. Was also in the military at the time.We all lived together and raised a kid. Lasted about 5 years. Looking back and talking to them I can say they were never happier.
That it only lasted five years suggests that something was wrong with the relationship. Of course it may have had nothing to do with the relationship.

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Nemo
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Nemo » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:35 pm

I'm not of the opinion that relationships are meant to be permanent. Nothing wrong if they are of course. I would prefer a marriage contract with 5 year renewals instead of the unrealistic until death do you part. We are all still quite close but I prefer living alone with my daughter currently. The predefined limits for relationships seem very arbitrary and largely based on women being property. I'm not a huge fan. I love the idea of marriage till death and soul mates but it seems like the people who do that are the real deviant minority.

boda
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by boda » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:03 am

Nemo wrote:I would prefer a marriage contract with 5 year renewals instead of the unrealistic until death do you part.
This makes no sense. You could just stay single.

joy&peace
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by joy&peace » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:33 am

.
.
.
Namaste,

Nemo -


tone-policing is not my activity, really , i am simply speaking -



and what i am saying is please clarify -- psychos here -- is referring to whom, specifically --



other adjectives would apply, but wrong speech is the basic thing --



but, also specifically, wrong speech with a high level of severity --



as not many words used in a negative context are meant to evoke anger in our modern day speech -



as in, it's not just an insult speech term, but one with a particular severity --



anyway;


there are a lot of problems in the world - why add to them?



i guess that would be my best, way to ask.



anger is considered one of the greatest evils - in buddhism



Schopenhauer wrote about argument, that the best way to win, is to make the opponent angry ,


but in buddhism, considering that anger is one of the great enemies - and our goal is to attain loving-kindness, compassion, equanimity,



and so forth,


it is a mistake to try to evoke it in someone, a practitioner, a member of our sangha, family, etc,



a mistake in the sense of its similarity to a mistake while walking, or something like this-



not in the terms of something that could really hurt somebody,


but just a mistake in terms of getting things done -


i.e., spreading dharma, etc.



namaste,
and peace.


with peace, friendship, and many good wishes,
J
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Nemo
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Nemo » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:39 am

boda wrote:
Nemo wrote:I would prefer a marriage contract with 5 year renewals instead of the unrealistic until death do you part.
This makes no sense. You could just stay single.
It makes perfect sense. Your support of the status quo makes no sense. How about you look through your privilege and explain yourself. People and circumstances change over time. What is a beneficial partnership today may be holding you back 5 years later. Shared bank accounts, taxes and living arrangements are quite useful. Over 50% of US marriages end in divorce so for a slim majority that is how it is practiced already. All three of us doubled(or more) our incomes in that 5 year period. Couples have many financial advantages. Where once a single breadwinner could support a family now it takes a couple to make ends meet. Adding an extra person is highly efficient and gives many distinct financial advantages. This is not to say that when a marriage ends all relationship ties are severed. (A scorched earth policy I consider psycho Joy&Peace). Far from it. We still see each other numerous times a week and I always seem to be picking up something at Costco or getting called when renovations, help around their houses or emotional support is needed. I am talking about relationships that are like friendships that can get closer of further away without the need for nuclear blow ups over status changes. When dating I still get people saying things like, "You are mine, you belong to me." No, I belong to me. Stop trying to own and control me.

boda
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by boda » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:17 pm

Nemo wrote:
boda wrote:
Nemo wrote:I would prefer a marriage contract with 5 year renewals instead of the unrealistic until death do you part.
This makes no sense. You could just stay single.
It makes perfect sense. Your support of the status quo makes no sense.
I'm supporting the status quo?
How about you look through your privilege and explain yourself.
My wife makes more money than I do??
People and circumstances change over time. What is a beneficial partnership today may be holding you back 5 years later.
I'm holding my wife back, in the way that I think you mean. The heart wants what the heart wants, I guess. :tongue:
Shared bank accounts, taxes and living arrangements are quite useful.
Only taxes might be effected by marriage. You don't need to be married share the rest. And polygamy is illegal in Canada & the U.S., so I don't imagine any tax breaks there.
Couples have many financial advantages. Where once a single breadwinner could support a family now it takes a couple to make ends meet. Adding an extra person is highly efficient and gives many distinct financial advantages.
Not the most romantic point of view. And again, don't need to be married for this.

Bristollad
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Bristollad » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:19 pm

Not the most romantic point of view. And again, don't need to be married for this.
I agree. It sounds more like a non-exculsive 5 year cohabitation contract with option to renew. Not quite a marriage. But if that is agreed by all parties and it remains conducive for the well-being of those involved, the upbringing of your daughter and your practise, it's nothing to do with me.

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justsit
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by justsit » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:04 am

Nemo wrote:I had an affair that turned into being married to both of them.
Not trying to pry here, it's really no one's business but yours, but in light of this discussion I'm wondering if all three of you agreed on this from the outset?

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Nemo
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Nemo » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:01 pm

justsit wrote:
Nemo wrote:I had an affair that turned into being married to both of them.
Not trying to pry here, it's really no one's business but yours, but in light of this discussion I'm wondering if all three of you agreed on this from the outset?
No. the original relationship was ending. I was getting ready to leave. She was a careerist hoping to climb the corporate ladder and looking back a femme fatale. It was her idea. As the years went on I fell much harder for the gentler more spiritual one and questioned her moral choices. Her answer was to chase her away and replace her with a young, attractive and vacuous thing. My heart was broken and I chose to live alone.

joy&peace
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by joy&peace » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:29 pm

.
.
.
Namaste,
.
Nemo :meditate:


Even if we disagree with one another, calling each other bad names is not helpful in cultivating Dharma,

nor the divine abodes of loving-kindness, compassion, equanimity, or sympathetic joy, etc.,


Lastly and perhaps most importantly, in understanding -- we may jump to snap judgments if we are not careful.


For instance, as a Buddhist, I do not eat meat. Yet it has been a long time since I viewed those who do with disdain or condescension.

On the one hand, I wish with all of my heart, more than I could possibly express, that animal suffering may be alleviated, and those who say "We must eat meat to live," -- may come, gradually, with faith to the Dharma -- so that steps will be made to end it altogether.

Yet, I do not call them bad names, because I do not view them that way.

With many well wishes for your health and peace.
J.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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ChrisK
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by ChrisK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:40 pm

Hello again. In regards to my initial post I have another question. Considering the fact that I will not end either relationship what is the impact on my karma? I know this is a very self serving concern but it is a concern of mine.

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ClearblueSky
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by ClearblueSky » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:31 pm

ChrisK wrote:Hello again. In regards to my initial post I have another question. Considering the fact that I will not end either relationship what is the impact on my karma? I know this is a very self serving concern but it is a concern of mine.
No one can answer that unless they are fully omniscient, and karma is incredibly complex. Adultery and lying are said to have a negative karmic impact. Also, the pattern of doing something out of clinging (i.e. clinging to not losing a relationship) can lead to more clinging and negativity, if that is the emotion behind it. No one here or anywhere else can make this decision for you, and if anyone tells you "you're definitely going to be reborn as a hungry ghost, or in hell", don't listen, because they can't know all the details of your karma. Milarepa murdered people, then reached full enlightenment in that same life after all.
I don't condone the behavior, but I recommend if that is your choice for now at least try to examine your clinging mindfully, and be as compassionate to everyone involved as you can.

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ChrisK
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by ChrisK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:39 pm

ClearblueSky wrote:
ChrisK wrote: Milarepa murdered people, then reached full enlightenment in that same life after all.
I don't condone the behavior, but I recommend if that is your choice for now at least try to examine your clinging mindfully, and be as compassionate to everyone involved as you can.
Thank you very much for your input. I understand that no one can answer that question but I, obviously, want others input.

drodul
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by drodul » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:45 pm

I'm no one you should particularly listen to, but it is my understanding that the nature of our karma depends largely on our motivation. In the human realm, out motives are often mixed. Self-clinging, negative emotions often coexist with more positive motives. As ClearblueSky said, the clinging attachment involved in these relationships is negative; however, clinging attachment is often also present when there's a relationship with only one person. Ultimately, your karma in this situation may depend on how much dependence, jealousy, etc, figure in your feelings toward the women, vs. how much genuine unselfish love and concern you have for each one.

Jeff H
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Jeff H » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:14 pm

I'm curious about why you are asking this. Your first question was quite reasonable: should you have begun Buddhist studies and/or practices despite your active military service and your current relationship situation? By all means, yes.

But how will whatever answers you receive to this question affect your subsequent thoughts and actions?
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:19 pm

ChrisK wrote:
ClearblueSky wrote:
ChrisK wrote: Milarepa murdered people, then reached full enlightenment in that same life after all.
I don't condone the behavior, but I recommend if that is your choice for now at least try to examine your clinging mindfully, and be as compassionate to everyone involved as you can.
Thank you very much for your input. I understand that no one can answer that question but I, obviously, want others input.

Well, you are lying to maintain this relationship, if I understood correctly, and you are also (some would say) committing some sort of sexual misconduct by engaging in a relationship that was not agreed upon by one partner.

You could spend some time trying to dig up the possible karmic fruits of sexual misconduct and lying, but maybe it's a better idea to focus on your effect on other people? Frankly, the above question is kind of selfish, "what will happen to me because of this shitty thing I'm doing to someone else"..if I understood right, you are betraying the trust of your wife. It might not be the best thing to tell her, but coming here and trying to figure out whether your rationalize continuing on your current path is probably not the way to go.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

boda
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by boda » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:25 pm

ChrisK wrote:Hello again. In regards to my initial post I have another question. Considering the fact that I will not end either relationship what is the impact on my karma? I know this is a very self serving concern but it is a concern of mine.
Hold on a sec while I fetch my crystal ball. Okay, things are getting clearer... I see your wife wondering where you are. I see her picking up your phone and pressing buttons... oh darn, the ball went all cloudy again.

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Ambrosius80
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Ambrosius80 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:38 pm

I think you already know the answer to your question. "Sexual misconduct", the third precept, forbids adultery.

I also think that by asking a question like this you are merely expecting people to support your current state of affairs, so you can continue with your cheating. Otherwise you would not even bother to ask, as the most fundamentally basic Buddhist ethics forbid all forms of cheating.

If you honestly admit the state of affairs to your wife and get her to accept that she will be living in a polygamic relationship, good for you. But if you continue to lie to her (thus also breaking the fourth precept), continually break her trust and practice adultery behind her back, then I thus concur:
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:these good people that spoke kindly and reserved are not like me.....i have been to hell and back because of men like you....cheaters...go F yourself.
"What we have now is the best. He who can never be satisfied is a poor man, no matter how much he owns.

What you have results from karmic causes that you created, and what you'll gain hinges on karmic causes that you're creating."
-Master Sheng Yen

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Adultery and Being a Buddhist

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:37 pm

The longer you wait, the harder it will be on everyone, including you.
I speak from personal experience in ending an affair and salvaging my marriage.
Feel free to send a PM if you want to discuss this in more depth with me.

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