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Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:24 am
by Stefos
Hi everyone,

I have a multi-faceted question to ask re. sex & the Dharma:

Is sexually moving from one "partner" (bizarre word meaning nothing to me) to another ethical per the Dharma?
I understand about consenting adults, MY being aware of the act, the consequences, etc.
Is this not being promiscuous even if there is a large gap of time between sexual partners?

Also, What place does marriage and a commitment have? Please cite sources if you quote texts.

Thank you,
Stefos
:anjali:

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:39 am
by Ricky
My guess is the Buddha would of advocated against moving from parter to the other and promiscuous sex. He would of recommended family values for his lay followers.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:35 am
by Stefos
Ricky wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:39 am
My guess is the Buddha would of advocated against moving from parter to the other and promiscuous sex. He would of recommended family values for his lay followers.
My understanding is the same however I can't give solid reference points in either the Pali, Chinese or Tibetan works.

I don't see why Lord Buddha would have said to "go right ahead with anyone" sexually speaking along with "marriage doesn't matter."

Funny, one would think that given North American and European humanism which promotes promiscuity under the guise of "getting together"
more fellow Buddhists and Vajra Brother and Sisters would be here posting to address this with a sense of urgency.

Thank you for your post
:anjali:
Stefos

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 am
by Wayfarer
Thinking through Texts: Toward a Critical Buddhist Theology of Sexuality José Ignacio Cabezón.

There's also a book called The Red Thread: Buddhist Approaches to Sexuality, Bernard Faure.

Both these are by Western academics.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:53 am
by dzogchungpa
Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 am
Thinking through Texts: Toward a Critical Buddhist Theology of Sexuality José Ignacio Cabezón.

There's also a book called The Red Thread: Buddhist Approaches to Sexuality, Bernard Faure.

Both these are by Western academics.

Cabezon just released his magnum opus on this topic:
https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/sexuali ... n-buddhism

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:55 am
by Fortyeightvows
If you look at books like journey to hell there is quite a bit of attention given to the promiscuous etc. Pretty sure the jade record does too.
But of course alot of people on here will say these arent real sutras :quoteunquote:

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:42 am
by Johnny Dangerous
Modern 'family values' did not exist in the Buddha's time, because people did not conceive of the nuclear family the way we do, fairly obviously. Neither did the silly 'sex postivity' one currently finds on the other end of the spectrum.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 am
by Johnny Dangerous
Stefos wrote: more fellow Buddhists and Vajra Brother and Sisters would be here posting to address this with a sense of urgency.

Thank you for your post
:anjali:
Stefos
No thanks, there are enough moralizers who want to deny others their autonomy in Dharma already. We don't have to like others sexual choices, but having 'urgency' about another person's (consensual ) sex life, and offering unsolicited advice is just asinine behavior, period.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:48 am
by tingdzin
:good:

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:18 am
by shaunc
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 am
Stefos wrote: more fellow Buddhists and Vajra Brother and Sisters would be here posting to address this with a sense of urgency.

Thank you for your post
:anjali:
Stefos
No thanks, there are enough moralizers who want to deny others their autonomy in Dharma already. We don't have to like others sexual choices, but having 'urgency' about another person's (consensual ) sex life, and offering unsolicited advice is just asinine behavior, period.
I second a great post. :good:
Also I can't see a problem with a 2nd partner after you've parted ways with the 1st partner.
If I understood the original post correctly.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:59 pm
by Simon E.
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:42 am
Modern 'family values' did not exist in the Buddha's time, because people did not conceive of the nuclear family the way we do, fairly obviously. Neither did the silly 'sex postivity' one currently finds on the other end of the spectrum.
This.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:05 pm
by Simon E.
There is an elephant in the room..or possibly a panda.

A conflation of Christian ethical stances with Dharma produces problems, but less obviously perhaps, so does a conflation of Confucianism and Dharma.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:15 pm
by Yavana
Simon E. wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:05 pm
There is an elephant in the room..or possibly a panda.

A conflation of Christian ethical stances with Dharma produces problems, but less obviously perhaps, so does a conflation of Confucianism and Dharma.
Let's address the buck deer, then. Pretending that the Buddha would have approved of modern sexual mores or that he didn't preach anything resembling our concept of "family values" to householders is just one more illusion. Not that I'm one to talk. My dedication to Dharma, among other factors, has left me a serial monogamist—but I only have to keep the Diamond Precept.



Just replace the phrase "high school" with the word "college." I'm not going to fool myself, or try to convince others, into thinking this is Brahma conduct, though.

These days, even married women are on the prowl for "new experiences." That's one kind of demon's mouth I steer clear of.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:25 pm
by Simon E.
Sounds like the women have had a lucky escape.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:30 pm
by Yavana
Simon E. wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:25 pm
Sounds like the women have had a lucky escape.
Not my oldest daughter.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:36 pm
by Fortyeightvows
Buddha for sure supported traditional marriage. For one he himself only took one wife and he also did say things about the 'sufferings of being a co-wife' . Give me a minute to give you guys some citations. But for sure buddha taught that monogamy was best for lay people.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:45 pm
by Malcolm
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:36 pm
Buddha for sure supported traditional marriage. For one he himself only took one wife...
No, the Buddha had at least two wives, and according to some sources, three; as well as many mistresses. The Lalitavistara reports he had a wife named Gopa, who was his head wife:

Then indeed, in order to conform to worldly conventions, the Bodhisattva dwelt among 84,000 women and showed himself to partake of the amorous games with pleasure. Among the 84,000 women, the Śākya girl Gopā was consecrated as the foremost wife.

"Traditional" marriage exists in many forms: polygamy, polyandry, monogamy, and everything in between.

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:04 pm
by Yavana
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:45 pm
"Traditional" marriage exists in many forms: polygamy, polyandry, monogamy, and everything in between.
What did Lord Buddha advise regarding the purchase of a good wife and how to properly discipline her? (This is still custom in parts of rural Mexico.)

Thanks

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:56 pm
by pael
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:45 pm
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:36 pm
Buddha for sure supported traditional marriage. For one he himself only took one wife...
No, the Buddha had at least two wives, and according to some sources, three; as well as many mistresses. The Lalitavistara reports he had a wife named Gopa, who was his head wife:

Then indeed, in order to conform to worldly conventions, the Bodhisattva dwelt among 84,000 women and showed himself to partake of the amorous games with pleasure. Among the 84,000 women, the Śākya girl Gopā was consecrated as the foremost wife.

"Traditional" marriage exists in many forms: polygamy, polyandry, monogamy, and everything in between.
It is often said to be Yasodhara. Who was third wife? Gopa was not Rahula's mom, right?

Re: Sexuality, Marriage, Promiscuity and the Dharma

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:57 pm
by Malcolm
Just to add a bit more here, the Abhiniṣkramaṇa-sūtra states that the Buddha had three main wives, Gopa, Yaśodharā, and Mrigajā, as well as 60,000 other wives, that is to say, 20,000 wives as the retinue for the three main wives. Buddha's palace was literally crawling with wives.