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Re: Lying: Is it Acceptable?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm
by deirdre
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:10 am
My truth is what Tennessee Williams wrote in "Night of the Iguana," - the only behavior I see that's ugly or wrong in humanity is unkindness.
If someone believes they are acting kindly to someone, when that person finds the action harmful, but there is no way of communicating the difference, you now have the person believing they are acting kindly when they are actually removing the individual's agency.
Perhaps one of the best examples of this is central to things that many people claim are feminist issues, when a full-grown adult who happens to also be a woman, gets treated as if she were a child and in great need of external help.

Re: Lying: Is it Acceptable?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:20 am
by TharpaChodron
deirdre wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:10 am
My truth is what Tennessee Williams wrote in "Night of the Iguana," - the only behavior I see that's ugly or wrong in humanity is unkindness.
If someone believes they are acting kindly to someone, when that person finds the action harmful, but there is no way of communicating the difference, you now have the person believing they are acting kindly when they are actually removing the individual's agency.
Perhaps one of the best examples of this is central to things that many people claim are feminist issues, when a full-grown adult who happens to also be a woman, gets treated as if she were a child and in great need of external help.
Sorry I don't follow your train of thought. Could you explain further?

Re: Lying: Is it Acceptable?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:23 am
by Yavana
deirdre wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:10 am
My truth is what Tennessee Williams wrote in "Night of the Iguana," - the only behavior I see that's ugly or wrong in humanity is unkindness.
If someone believes they are acting kindly to someone, when that person finds the action harmful, but there is no way of communicating the difference, you now have the person believing they are acting kindly when they are actually removing the individual's agency.
Perhaps one of the best examples of this is central to things that many people claim are feminist issues, when a full-grown adult who happens to also be a woman, gets treated as if she were a child and in great need of external help.
Very true. :good:

Re: Lying: Is it Acceptable?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 am
by TharpaChodron
Yavana wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:23 am
deirdre wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:10 am
My truth is what Tennessee Williams wrote in "Night of the Iguana," - the only behavior I see that's ugly or wrong in humanity is unkindness.
If someone believes they are acting kindly to someone, when that person finds the action harmful, but there is no way of communicating the difference, you now have the person believing they are acting kindly when they are actually removing the individual's agency.
Perhaps one of the best examples of this is central to things that many people claim are feminist issues, when a full-grown adult who happens to also be a woman, gets treated as if she were a child and in great need of external help.
Very true. :good:
I'm sorry, but when you bring up feminism in the topic randomly and then there's no good reason for what you are implying, it leaves a lot to be explained. I'm thinking you are implying that women use feminism as an excuse for childish behavior? Kind of a simplistic response and a bit of #mansplaining #misogyny there. But...maybe I'm off base. :roll:

Re: Lying: Is it Acceptable?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:37 pm
by catmoon
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 am


I'm sorry, but when you bring up feminism in the topic randomly and then there's no good reason for what you are implying, it leaves a lot to be explained. I'm thinking you are implying that women use feminism as an excuse for childish behavior? Kind of a simplistic response and a bit of #mansplaining #misogyny there. But...maybe I'm off base. :roll:

Off base? I'd have to reserve judgement on that one, at least until you tell me how all this applies to the OP's question.

Re: Lying

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:23 pm
by Nicholas Weeks
From the Perfection of Generosity Sutra:
[Buddha speaks]: “How do bodhisattvas abandon lying? Noble son, bodhisattvas do so by
reflecting in this way: ‘Even yakṣas, bhūtas, and piśācas are fond of the truth;
they cherish it, like it, and enjoy it. I am also fond of the truth; I, too, cherish it,
like it, and enjoy it. Therefore, just as I want no one to deceive me, order
someone to deceive me, or rejoice in someone deceiving me by telling lies, I
myself will never deceive, order someone to deceive, or rejoice in anyone being
deceived by lies!’ Noble son, this is how bodhisattva great beings abandon lying.
Regarding this, it is said:

The wise who are fond of the truth,
As even yakṣas and bhūtas are,
Should never deceive others
By telling lies.