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Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:32 am
by Nicholas Weeks
An intoxicant far more risky than conventionally thought.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/marijuan ... -violence/

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:44 am
by Nemo
A bit over the top don't you think?
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:47 am
by Yavana
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:44 am
A bit over the top don't you think?
How so?

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:47 am
by Nicholas Weeks
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:44 am
A bit over the top don't you think?
Not a bit - very sobering facts brought to light.
Almost everything you think you know about the health effects of cannabis, almost everything advocates and the media have told you for a generation, is wrong.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:56 am
by Nemo
"Facts," didn't see any medical journal references in there. Just a bunch of bullshit from bad 80s cop shows.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 am
by Nicholas Weeks
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:56 am
"Facts," didn't see any medical journal references in there. Just a bunch of bullshit from bad 80s cop shows.
Pretty sloppy reader, though his book will be chock full of citations:
In most cases, studies find that the risk is at least as significant as with alcohol. A 2012 paper in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined a federal survey of more than 9,000 adolescents and found that marijuana use was associated with a doubling of domestic violence; a 2017 paper in Social Psychiatry and Psychiatric Epidemiology examined drivers of violence among 6,000 British and Chinese men and found that drug use—the drug nearly always being cannabis—translated into a five-fold increase in violence.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:11 am
by Nemo
Studies found that people believe anything that has the word study in it.

I worked with veterans in the army and have seen cannabis prescribed. It's even covered for vets by insurance now it was so effective in clinical trials. Though obviously overhyped it is a very useful and safe medication. I suggest you do more reading at PubMed and less on neocon troll sites.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cannabis

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:22 am
by Adamantine
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:11 am
I suggest you do more reading at PubMed and less on neocon troll sites.

:rolling:

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:23 am
by Nicholas Weeks
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:11 am
Studies found that people believe anything that has the word study in it.

I worked with veterans in the army and have seen cannabis prescribed. It's even covered for vets by insurance now it was so effective in clinical trials. Though obviously overhyped it is a very useful and safe medication. I suggest you do more reading at PubMed and less on neocon troll sites.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cannabis
No doubt it does help in some cases, but Berenson is not saying it is worthless, only that risks in the two areas of violence & mental illness are significant.
After an exhaustive review, the National Academy of Medicine found in 2017 that “cannabis use is likely to increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses; the higher the use, the greater the risk.” Also that “regular cannabis use is likely to increase the risk for developing social anxiety disorder.”

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:19 am
by Johnny Dangerous
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:23 am
Nemo wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:11 am
Studies found that people believe anything that has the word study in it.

I worked with veterans in the army and have seen cannabis prescribed. It's even covered for vets by insurance now it was so effective in clinical trials. Though obviously overhyped it is a very useful and safe medication. I suggest you do more reading at PubMed and less on neocon troll sites.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cannabis
No doubt it does help in some cases, but Berenson is not saying it is worthless, only that risks in the two areas of violence & mental illness are significant.
After an exhaustive review, the National Academy of Medicine found in 2017 that “cannabis use is likely to increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses; the higher the use, the greater the risk.” Also that “regular cannabis use is likely to increase the risk for developing social anxiety disorder.”
The schizophrenia thing is in people already likely to develop it, it doesn't "cause schizophrenia", it increases the risk for those already vulnerable, and the amount is debatable.

The social anxiety thing, sure, anyone who's ever been a pothead knows that. However pound for pound alcohol is a *far* more dangerous drug in nearly every way conceivable, and kills lots of people every year, generally speaking marijuana does not. It has some risks, but compared to virtually every other drug of common use out here, they are minimal. I say this as someone who counsels people struggling with addiction for a living, and has dealt with 100's of people using different drugs.

Further, it is a viable and much-needed alternative to things like opioid medications - again, drugs which are infinitely more harmful than marijuana, and are ironically still more accepted in the medical community.

I'm not one of those "pot is medicine" folks, but it is not a particularly dangerous drug, and it does have some therapeutic uses.

It's unconscionable that a medical "authority" would claim the risks of marijuana are equivalent to alcohol, pure nonsense, and basically a straight up lie, given the number of deaths (especially by violence) that occur under the influence of alcohol. It's also unconscionable that it continues to remain a schedule 1 drug.

https://drugabuse.com/marijuana-vs-alcohol/

That original article is pure junk, and would laughed out of the room by mental health or substance use disorder professionals, dude has zero idea what he is talking about, and it shows that he is not trained in the fields of mental health or substance abuse. He doesn't even understand some of the basic premises underlying the "studies" and "science" he is talking about, from his poor understanding of causality in addiction in terming marijuana as a "gateway drug" to his poor understanding of the various risk factors for schizophrenia. He's ill-informed, and his opinion counts for pretty much nothing.

The only thing he's right about is the potency, it is an issue with the people who actually struggle with dependency on and abuse of the substance, things like dabs have changed the game.

I don't know about the specific studies cited, but there are a million poorly done studies out there that mistake correlation for causation with drug use, and they sound like candidates. Further, some guy with an economics and history degree shouldn't be trusted to vet them appropriately.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:07 am
by shaunc
I find it hard to believe the bit about violence. In my 55years living in a blue collar, working class area, I'm yet to witness an all in brawl among pot heads. Drinkers, gamblers and over women yes, but pot heads no.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:36 am
by Grigoris
That article is a prime example of the dangers of incorrect statistical analysis.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:29 pm
by well wisher
Some folks ( like my own stepdad) say there might be conspiracy of big-money pharmacy corporation backing universities and scientific firms to dissuade people AWAY from taking marijuana. Because more weed takers means less $$ from their synthetic pain killer drug sales, etc.
Some say marijuana are natural remedies just like tea leaves, so should not be avoided.
My stepdad has been taking the CBD medical type marijuana recently (instead of of THC the more possibly-hallucinogenic strand), and he still seems like a very friendly and healthy guy who enjoys his golfs and dog-walks and companionship with my mom.

As for me, I am still scared of the possible hallucinogenic effects, so I tend to avoid it still. Besides, I feel no need to take it as I am not suffering from any chronic pains for now.
My preferred drugs by the way are just funny zen koans and internet humor websites, plenty to get me keep me "high" already without affecting my physiology directly. :rolling:

Well, recently I have been taking some Chinese herbal medicine though to help my liver and digestions so i am not completely drug-free. But at least those are less potent than marijuana with more history of proven safety records, I think.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:45 pm
by seeker242
Dangers of Marijuana
Still does not justify throwing people in jail because of it.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm
by narhwal90
Marijuana Anonymous exists for a reason, habitual use turning into addiction is definitely a thing. Maybe not as dangerous as alcohol but there will be casualties and collateral injury.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:45 pm
by Grigoris
narhwal90 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm
Marijuana Anonymous exists for a reason, habitual use turning into addiction is definitely a thing. Maybe not as dangerous as alcohol but there will be casualties and collateral injury.
Food consumption can become a life destroying habit, but you don't see people calling for food to be banned, or sticking people in jail for possession of food.

Habitual use leading to addiction is a behvioural problem, in the case of substances that are not physically addictive. Even with addictive substances (like heroin or cigarettes) the physical addiction is relatively easy to overcome and the side effects are short lived.

So...

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm
by Nicholas Weeks
The expected rule of conventional so called thinking is at work here. So I will let the thread go and leave in hopes some may read the book by Berenson. Here is part of Megan's recent review at Amazon:
What I have to say needs to be heard. I remain aghast and horrified by the comments, insults and worse by the nay-sayers of Alex Berenson's book. This has NOTHING to do with judgement, lifestyle or anything close to that. This has to do with getting out the truth - real and vital information that can save lives and hopefully shed light on the devastation being caused by marijuana use for more individuals than people have any idea. THC assault on the brain is impacting tens of thousands upon thousands of people and many more than that, when you include the concentric circles of families and beyond.
I am an educated woman who has been on this journey with my now 29 year old son for more than 5 years. Some background on my son - he was a standout student/athlete in high school who went on to a top college where he became a three-season runner and All American Cross Country runner his senior year. He had a passion "to make a difference in the world" and wrote his senior thesis on the inequities of our country's education system with plans to pursue his PHD, which his thesis advisor implored him to do. He joined Ameri-Corps and moved to New Mexico with his college girlfriend to teach economically disadvantaged children. Everything went well for the first year but sometime during the second year, things started to fall apart. We had no idea he had started smoking marijuana, which he never had used during HS or college. We asked him to come home to see if we could help him and shortly after that, he had his first psychotic break. That was when we found out about his marijuana use. This journey has now been ongoing for over 5 years. Our son has had over 17 hospitalizations, been in longterm treatment programs, been committed to two different state mental institutions, been in jail and homeless on the streets. We have had to call 911 more times than we can count. And every time he is released, he resumes his pot use as he cannot fight his addiction, and the descent into delusional psychosis and then full psychotic break ensues. As one doctor so eloquently stated at one point, "pot will always trump everything."

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:51 pm
by Grigoris
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm
The expected rule of conventional so called thinking is at work here. So I will let the thread go and leave in hopes some may read the book by Berenson. Here is part of Megan's recent review at Amazon:
What I have to say needs to be heard. I remain aghast and horrified by the comments, insults and worse by the nay-sayers of Alex Berenson's book. This has NOTHING to do with judgement, lifestyle or anything close to that. This has to do with getting out the truth - real and vital information that can save lives and hopefully shed light on the devastation being caused by marijuana use for more individuals than people have any idea. THC assault on the brain is impacting tens of thousands upon thousands of people and many more than that, when you include the concentric circles of families and beyond.
I am an educated woman who has been on this journey with my now 29 year old son for more than 5 years. Some background on my son - he was a standout student/athlete in high school who went on to a top college where he became a three-season runner and All American Cross Country runner his senior year. He had a passion "to make a difference in the world" and wrote his senior thesis on the inequities of our country's education system with plans to pursue his PHD, which his thesis advisor implored him to do. He joined Ameri-Corps and moved to New Mexico with his college girlfriend to teach economically disadvantaged children. Everything went well for the first year but sometime during the second year, things started to fall apart. We had no idea he had started smoking marijuana, which he never had used during HS or college. We asked him to come home to see if we could help him and shortly after that, he had his first psychotic break. That was when we found out about his marijuana use. This journey has now been ongoing for over 5 years. Our son has had over 17 hospitalizations, been in longterm treatment programs, been committed to two different state mental institutions, been in jail and homeless on the streets. We have had to call 911 more times than we can count. And every time he is released, he resumes his pot use as he cannot fight his addiction, and the descent into delusional psychosis and then full psychotic break ensues. As one doctor so eloquently stated at one point, "pot will always trump everything."
No, it the rule of logic, not the rule of conventional thinking. You see causality where only tenuous links exist.

It is true that some people may have an underlying psychiatric conditions triggered by smoking marijuana. Some people. That does not mean that marijuana smoking causes psychosis.

Some people can die if they eat fava beans. That does not mean that eating fava beans causes death.

You, and the person you are quoting, are engaging in all manner of logical fallacy and the author is also engaging in incorrectly derived statistical conclusions.

Take this passage for example:
The first four states to legalize marijuana for recreational use were Colorado and Washington in 2014 and Alaska and Oregon in 2015. Combined, those four states had about 450 murders and 30,300 aggravated assaults in 2013. Last year, they had almost 620 murders and 38,000 aggravated assaults—an increase of 37 percent for murders and 25 percent for aggravated assaults, far greater than the national increase, even after accounting for differences in population growth.
He does not even go to the effort of showing us how the two factors are related (if they are related at all). There are so many other factors being played out, that it would be ludicrous and preposterous to draw a relationship between marijuana legalisation and murder/assault in the particular states. And yet he does. A minimal application of critical thinking and a basic understanding of statistics, is all you need to understand that this passage is complete and utter BS.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:05 pm
by Mantrik
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:51 pm
There are so many other factors being played out, that it would be ludicrous and preposterous to draw a relationship between marijuana legalisation and murder/assault in the particular states. And yet he does. A minimal application of critical thinking and a basic understanding of statistics, is all you need to understand that this passage is complete and utter BS.
This.
Even a ridiculously narrow focus would perhaps examine what street drugs may affect crime.

Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:46 pm
by Nemo
And even a broken clock is right twice a day. There was a very slight temporary uptick in turf wars from cannabis legalization as street prices began to drop and profits became scarce. There were a few murders, but of course as the legal supply begins to push out the illegal this decreases now steadily over time. Legal supply at first only being able to handle roughly 20% of the current market. :spy: