Trans surgery on children

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Nicholas Weeks
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Trans surgery on children

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:15 pm

Some MDs protest to Surgeon General the careless use of drugs & surgery on gender dysphoric children:

https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 963-v4.pdf
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
Manjushri-namasamgiti

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:15 pm
Some MDs protest to Surgeon General the careless use of drugs & surgery on gender dysphoric children:

https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 963-v4.pdf
And some don't. Your point is?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:23 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:15 pm
Some MDs protest to Surgeon General the careless use of drugs & surgery on gender dysphoric children:

https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 963-v4.pdf
And some don't. Your point is?
Those doctors who ignore drugs-surgery option and prefer the safer, harmless option of psychological counseling are good healers. The others gain money and approval from the current Trans fad.
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
Manjushri-namasamgiti

tkp67
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by tkp67 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:28 pm

I would think a culture that accepts this without stigma might have better insight

is Thailand representative of this tolerance or am I misinformed?

tkp67
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by tkp67 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:30 pm

Due to the pressures of burgeoning populations subsequent generations have different genetic consequences and this adds to complexity and should give everyone a pause.

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:41 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:23 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:15 pm
Some MDs protest to Surgeon General the careless use of drugs & surgery on gender dysphoric children:

https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 963-v4.pdf
And some don't. Your point is?
Those doctors who ignore drugs-surgery option and prefer the safer, harmless option of psychological counseling are good healers. The others gain money and approval from the current Trans fad.
There is no "Trans fad", there is just greater acceptance of transgenderism and so more people are feeling a little more comfortable about coming out of the closet.

Gay liberation, for example, did not "turn more people gay", it just made it more acceptable for people to express their (homo)sexuality.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nemo
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Nemo » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:56 pm

I've met some real hotties that started taking hormones since before puberty in Asia. Staying female is hard once the testosterone starts pumping. Going from female to male with hormones is pretty easy any at any age. Surgery is a hot mess. Wanting to "pass" is often very sad. Acceptance can make it mostly obsolete.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:13 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:41 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:23 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm
And some don't. Your point is?
Those doctors who ignore drugs-surgery option and prefer the safer, harmless option of psychological counseling are good healers. The others gain money and approval from the current Trans fad.
There is no "Trans fad", there is just greater acceptance of transgenderism and so more people are feeling a little more comfortable about coming out of the closet.

Gay liberation, for example, did not "turn more people gay", it just made it more acceptable for people to express their (homo)sexuality.
Missing my point. Trans I am only using as surgery & drug enhanced, not what were called in past times natural queens & dikes. Furthermore, using children for medical experimentation is bad.
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
Manjushri-namasamgiti

Simon E.
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:16 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:23 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:15 pm
Some MDs protest to Surgeon General the careless use of drugs & surgery on gender dysphoric children:

https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 963-v4.pdf
And some don't. Your point is?
Those doctors who ignore drugs-surgery option and prefer the safer, harmless option of psychological counseling are good healers. The others gain money and approval from the current Trans fad.
So how do you explain the actions of those Consultant Surgeons who work for the British National Health Service and who are in effect state employees. They get the same salary from their NHS work whether they do or don’t do gender realignment surgery.
So clearly their motivation is not merely a matter of remuneration. They are engaged in aiding those whose gender self identity is not clear and not binary. They are a small minority of the population, but their suffering is real and is certainly not the result of faddiness.
“Why don’t you close down your PC for a while and find out who needs your help?”

HH Tai Situ.

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:22 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:13 pm
Missing my point.
No, you just changed your point.
Trans I am only using as surgery & drug enhanced...
???
...not what were called in past times natural queens & dikes.
When, in the past, was homosexuality considered "natural"? It wasn't all that long ago that, in Europe, we were shipping homosexuals to death camps. There are still people (for want of better term) practicing conversion "therapy".
Furthermore, using children for medical experimentation is bad.
I agree. But somehow I don't think that is your main point. Your main point is your fear of Transsexuals, a fear you have made apparent in other posts of yours on DW in the past.

Get over it.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:33 pm

Now I agree that minors are not in a position to give consent to irreversible medical procedures, that is just common sense, but who are you to judge the parents of these children?

They are the one's that gave birth to the child. Raise it. Interact with the child on a daily basis. Understand and distinguish the needs and wants of the child. Etc... Who are you to judge their decision? Who asked you?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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rory
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by rory » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:01 pm

This is extremely worrying. Here is a link to the the Daily Mail (broadsheet) but read what the former Governor of the Tavistock, the UK's premier gender identity clinic trust weighs in on his deep concerns:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -path.html

And here if you wish to read about those young people who have detransitioned in their own words:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/detransition/
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Dan74
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Dan74 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:57 pm

What worries me is the binary thinking that one must be this or that, the labeling and the need to 'fix'.

There are a lot of assumptions behind this that imo dont get questioned enough.

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:20 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:57 pm
What worries me is the binary thinking that one must be this or that, the labeling and the need to 'fix'.


There are a lot of assumptions behind this that imo dont get questioned enough.
I think that you are making a lot of assumptions. When was the last time you sat down and talked to a trans person? Had them explain what they feel and why they feel it? It is an eye opener.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Caoimhghín
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:27 pm

rory wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:01 pm
And here if you wish to read about those young people who have detransitioned in their own words:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/detransition/
gassho
Rory
There are also homosexuals who get into a bad place in life and scapegoat their homosexuality as the cause of their behaviour, have a mental crisis, and then are born-again evangelical social conservatives, so to speak. So this sort of thing is going on everywhere, and the detransitioning article really reminded of what I write below.

I am thinking particularly of figures like Michael Voris who has a fundamentalist Catholic YouTube web-show, "The Vortex (where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed)" where he advocates usual extreme positions against homosexuality, etc.

He has a conversation story which sounds very familiar. I can paraphrase it here. He talks about the excesses of drugs, the hedonistic sex parties, unsafe risky sexual practices oftentimes mixed with subtle or overt self-harming behaviours. He particularly talks about the state of his posterior, as he was obviously into some kind of irregular sexual practice involving it which I feel no need to mention in any detail. His flight to religion, which sadly was also a flight into the adoption of extremism, was largely a flight from extraordinary self-destruction and I can't help but wonder if it was a last ditch effort at self-preservation.

And as a gay man, I have known many men in situations like Michael Voris describes he was in. I don't think it's particularly unknown that many homosexuals do not get to grow up in supportive families and that being told you are to be likened to pedophiles, or whatever other anti-gay narrative is to be found, on the regular will have a psychological impact. A lot of gay men who grow up in homophobic environments find themselves turning to drug abuse to escape their feelings of deserving some sort of destruction. Feelings of isolation, combined with drug abuse, gives rise to a culture of practice called "party and play," which are essentially free-wheeling meth & sex parties, where lonely individuals can use sex and collective taking of drugs as an excuse to be to communicate with each other in ways that they would not otherwise be comfortable doing.

Here's the thing, though. Michael Voris and these various men, for whatever tragic reasons, chose to do all of this excessive self-destructive hedonistic behaviour. They could have just been regular homosexuals living regular homosexual lives. They didn't have to massively abuse ecstasy and meth, to participate in the darker sides of human society, which are very real and present always, which I am sure we all know.

So when they had their snap and reach rock bottom and reach a place where they just can't live that kind of life anymore , they then go on to presume that every other gay man out there is living the same self-inflicted life of pain they lived and start broadcasts like "The Vortex."

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but if one path leads ultimately to despair and suicide, and there is another path that leads to a more liveable life, full of vainglorious prelest and self-righteous conceit it may be, then maybe Michael Voris is ultimately walking a better path for him. I can't help but think that his rehabilitation out of addiction and despair could have been less extreme, but perhaps some extreme addicts need an extreme break.

I hope this isn't too incoherent and the relevance to the link I quoted above comes through the way I see it. These are, after all, ex-trans people. If being ex-gay leads someone to have a better life, I would wish them be an ex-gay. But why do they then have to turn around and presume that what applies to them applies to the whole world? It reminds me of the wrong views in the Net of Brahmā in the Dīrghāgama: "the self and the world are the same [...]". Egotism, in short.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Grigoris
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Re: Trans surgery on children

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:32 pm

And on that note...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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