8 Precepts taking

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Miroku
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8 Precepts taking

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:31 pm

Hi,

I really like master Hai Tao's teachings and recently I saw this quote on his fb page.
H.E. Hai Tao Master

Those who had committed sexual misconduct in the past, then you have to take the Eight Precepts. How many times that you had committed sexual misconduct, then you had better take the Eight Precepts for the same number of times.
Then you are able to eliminate your unwholesome karma of sexual misconduct .
What do you think about this? Is there some textual resource to back it up? And how can one take the vow of 8 precepts alone for a limited amount of time?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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FromTheEarth
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by FromTheEarth » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:30 pm

1, not to my knowledge.
2, supposedly, the eight precepts are limited to one day in terms of duration, just as other pratimoksha precepts are supposed to be life-long (though not strictly speaking 24 hours; starting from the morning you undertake the vows to the sunrise of the next day). Therefore, say, if you would like to keep the vows for three months continuously, like prescribed in some Pure Land sutras, you still have to renew the vows every single morning.

BTW, according to certain Sarvastivada texts and the Chinese vinaya tradition, the eight precepts are categorically superior to the five precepts as they are, like other renunciate vows, lokottara (supermundane) rather than laukika (mundane), greatly meritorious, and lead to nirvana. Although there is no textual evidence that each observance can prevent the negative karma of one sexual misconduct from fruition, the eight precepts are believed to be much more powerful and meritorious than that.

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Dhammanando
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:27 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:31 pm
What do you think about this? Is there some textual resource to back it up?
The general idea that undertaking and observing the eight precepts can impede the ripening of unwholesome karmas is found in many texts, but I don't recall seeing one that specifies sexual misconduct in particular.
"O great King! In the state of Varanasi, there was a butcher called "Broad-Forehead", who every day killed an innumerable number of sheep. Having encountered Sariputra, he received the eight precepts and then a day and night passed. Because of this, after his death, he was born as the son of Vaisravana, the king of the northern heaven.
(Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra, ch. 24 On Pure Actions)

https://webzoom.freewebs.com/nirvana-su ... /ch24.html
See also Meisezahl's translation of the Amoghapāśahṛdayasūtra and the discussion of it in the ethics section of Jamgön Kongtrul's Treasury of Knowledge.

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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by ford_truckin » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:27 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:31 pm
What do you think about this? Is there some textual resource to back it up?
The general idea that undertaking and observing the eight precepts can impede the ripening of unwholesome karmas is found in many texts, but I don't recall seeing one that specifies sexual misconduct in particular.
"O great King! In the state of Varanasi, there was a butcher called "Broad-Forehead", who every day killed an innumerable number of sheep. Having encountered Sariputra, he received the eight precepts and then a day and night passed. Because of this, after his death, he was born as the son of Vaisravana, the king of the northern heaven.
(Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra, ch. 24 On Pure Actions)

https://webzoom.freewebs.com/nirvana-su ... /ch24.html
See also Meisezahl's translation of the Amoghapāśahṛdayasūtra and the discussion of it in the ethics section of Jamgön Kongtrul's Treasury of Knowledge.
Is there anything similar to this found in the suttas? If so, which ones?

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Dhammanando
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:37 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 pm
Is there anything similar to this found in the suttas? If so, which ones?
No. In Pali sources the underlying principle here, i.e., of obstructive kamma and destructive kamma, is more of an Abhidhamma topic. There are one or two stories in the suttas instantiating the principle (and many more such in the commentaries), but I can't recall any where it's the eight precepts in particular that serve as obstructive or destructive kamma.
Obstructive (upapīḷaka) kamma is kamma which cannot produce its own result but nevertheless obstructs and frustrates some other kamma, countering its efficacy or shortening the duration of its pleasant or painful results. Even though a productive kamma may be strong at the time it is accumulated, an obstructive kamma directly opposed to it may counteract it so that it becomes impaired when producing its results. For example, a wholesome kamma tending to produce rebirth in a superior plane of existence may be impeded by an obstructive kamma so that it generates rebirth in a lower plane. A kamma tending to produce rebirth among high families may produce rebirth among low families; kamma tending to longevity may tend towards shortness of life; kamma tending to produce beauty may produce a plain appearance, etc. In the opposite way, an unwholesome kamma tending to produce rebirth in the great hells may be counteracted by an obstructive wholesome kamma and produce rebirth in the minor hells or among the petas.

During the course of existence many instances may be found of the operation of obstructive kamma. For example, in the human realm such kamma will obstruct the continuum of aggregates produced by kamma, facilitating the maturation of kamma that results in suffering and causing failures in regard to property and wealth or family and friends, etc. In the lower realms obstructive kamma may counteract the rebirth-producing kamma, contributing to occasions of ease and happiness.

Destructive (upaghātaka) kamma is wholesome or unwholesome kamma which supplants other weaker kamma, prevents it from ripening, and produces instead its own result. For example, somebody born as a human being may, through his productive kamma, have been originally destined for a long life-span, but a destructive kamma may arise and bring about a premature death. At the time of death, at first a sign of a bad destination may appear by the power of an evil kamma, heralding a bad rebirth, but then a good kamma may emerge, expel the bad kamma, and having caused the sign of a good destination to appear, produce rebirth in a heavenly world. On the other hand, a bad kamma may suddenly arise, cut off the productive potential of a good kamma, and generate rebirth in a woeful realm.
(Bhikkhu Bodhi, A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, ch. 5)

ford_truckin
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by ford_truckin » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:44 am

Thanks Dhammanando

humble.student
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by humble.student » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:52 am

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:31 pm
Hi,

I really like master Hai Tao's teachings and recently I saw this quote on his fb page.
H.E. Hai Tao Master

Those who had committed sexual misconduct in the past, then you have to take the Eight Precepts. How many times that you had committed sexual misconduct, then you had better take the Eight Precepts for the same number of times.
Then you are able to eliminate your unwholesome karma of sexual misconduct .
What do you think about this? Is there some textual resource to back it up? And how can one take the vow of 8 precepts alone for a limited amount of time?
In Chinese Buddhism, the 8 precepts are observed whilst on retreat or staying in a monastery (as layperson), and many laypeople also take them as a matter of course on particular days of the month, usually 6 days (sometimes more, depending on one's practice). This will also include being vegetarian, if one isn't already, and not eating after noon. I don't think that any particular ceremony is necessary for the above cases, but some people will also take them formally, then dedicate the merit at the end of the day.

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Miroku
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by Miroku » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:33 pm

Hi thank you all for your advice and inputs! :twothumbsup:
humble.student wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:52 am
In Chinese Buddhism, the 8 precepts are observed whilst on retreat or staying in a monastery (as layperson), and many laypeople also take them as a matter of course on particular days of the month, usually 6 days (sometimes more, depending on one's practice). This will also include being vegetarian, if one isn't already, and not eating after noon. I don't think that any particular ceremony is necessary for the above cases, but some people will also take them formally, then dedicate the merit at the end of the day.
Do you know, Humble.student how one takes these vows bit more "formally"?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

humble.student
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by humble.student » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:24 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:33 pm
Hi thank you all for your advice and inputs! :twothumbsup:
humble.student wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:52 am
In Chinese Buddhism, the 8 precepts are observed whilst on retreat or staying in a monastery (as layperson), and many laypeople also take them as a matter of course on particular days of the month, usually 6 days (sometimes more, depending on one's practice). This will also include being vegetarian, if one isn't already, and not eating after noon. I don't think that any particular ceremony is necessary for the above cases, but some people will also take them formally, then dedicate the merit at the end of the day.
Do you know, Humble.student how one takes these vows bit more "formally"?
My understanding is that the vows must first be requested and received from a preceptor, and thereafter they can be taken by oneself as the need arises. Ven. Haitao who you mentioned earlier gives instructions of a self-conferral of the precepts (for a day and a night) along the following lines:

Perform 3 prostrations in front of a Buddha image, then remain kneeling with hands in anjali mudra.

Recite the opening verse.
Recite the verse of repentance.
Take refuge.
Take the precepts.
Recite the precepts.
Recite the vows.
Dedicate the merit.

This is all very standard stuff in terms of format and content.

Here's the Theravada procedure by way of comparison: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... n0065.html

I will add that the normal 5 precepts are also expanded in the 8, and not just by the extra 3, but also 'internally.' i.e. the scope of the existing precepts is extended, so the definition of say, sexual misconduct, will be broader than usual.

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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by pael » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:04 am

My health prevents fasting after noon, how can I observe 8 precepts?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

humble.student
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Re: 8 Precepts taking

Post by humble.student » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:20 am

pael wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:04 am
My health prevents fasting after noon, how can I observe 8 precepts?
No authoritative scriptural references I am afraid, but you could just observe everything else, and call dinner or supper "medicine meal" from now on.

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