driving the seafood truck

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Fortyeightvows
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driving the seafood truck

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 am

would driving the seafood delivery truck be wrong livelihood?

shaunc
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by shaunc » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:30 am

No, you didn't kill them, you're just delivering them to customers.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:28 am

shaunc wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:30 am
No, you didn't kill them, you're just delivering them to customers.
Strictly speaking, that is correct.
The buddhist prohibitions are not “sins”
but rather, they have to do with following a path to realization.
In that respect, driving a fish truck might not be the occupation most conducive to developing one’s progress.

I live in an area where there are many, many factory chicken farms. On any day or night you will see flatbed semi trucks stacked full of cages carrying live chickens to their death. It is really awful. You have to imagine that one must somehow be able to put that out of their mind and develop a cold indifference in order to drive the truck all day long. So that sort of thing would not be conducive to someone on the Buddhist path, however it would not technically constitute wrong livelihood.

Everything is connected. An elementary school teacher teaches a person who later grows up to be a butcher.
So, where do we draw the line?
Buddha drew the line at the actual action itself of killing, or stealing, etc.
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Fortyeightvows
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:28 am
shaunc wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:30 am
No, you didn't kill them, you're just delivering them to customers.
I live in an area where there are many, many factory chicken farms. On any day or night you will see flatbed semi trucks stacked full of cages carrying live chickens to their death. It is really awful. You have to imagine that one must somehow be able to put that out of their mind and develop a cold indifference in order to drive the truck all day long. So that sort of thing would not be conducive to someone on the Buddhist path, however it would not technically constitute wrong livelihood.
Your post makes me think that it makes a difference if they are alive or frozen

Simon E.
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:51 am

You are splitting hairs. You killed them or you didn’t. If you didn’t then no karma vipaka accrues.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

Fortyeightvows
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:27 am

Well, in the chicken truck example- you are delivering them to be killed. Surely that has some karma attached to it?

Malcolm
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:27 am
Well, in the chicken truck example- you are delivering them to be killed. Surely that has some karma attached to it?
If it is the only job you can get, and you hate it, not much if any.

Sādhaka
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Sādhaka » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:06 pm

The specific topic of meat eating vs not eating meat aside for now, I do not consent to any of samsara’s BS. I recognize that generally everything I do, I do it because I kind of have to; not that I mentally consent to it.

Of course I could be an ‘deadbeat’ and leave my family behind to spend the rest of my life in practice retreat; but that wouldn’t be very nice now would it.

The Nirmanakaya Gautama, Buddha Sakyamuni, had a kingdom to leave for his family. I currently do not physically have one to leave for mine....

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:21 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 am
Your post makes me think that it makes a difference if they are alive or frozen
When I was a kid, I used to fish. Sometimes we would put the fish in the freezer to eat later. I remember on one occasion we took the frozen fish out of the freezer and put it in a bowl of warm water to thaw, and it started swimming again! So, I guess you can have fish both alive and frozen. Maybe that’s Schroedinger’s fish. I don’t know.

I also live near the ocean, so when I think “seafood truck” it can mean live fish, lobsters, crabs, etc.

I didn’t mean to split hairs (or scales, if that’s the case). If driving a fish truck is your livelihood, it doesn’t mean that’s wrong livelihood. I was suggesting that if it seems to bother one’s conscience, if you feel that somehow you are contributing to the suffering of beings, then it isn’t conducive to your practice if it creates obstacles for you. That’s what matters, how you interpret it, how you feel about it. You aren’t killing them. If it’s not a nagging issue, don’t worry about it. This is samsara.

On the other hand, there’s the legend of Marpa (Kagyu Buddhist tradition) who was cooking fish on the beach, blessing them, and then tossing them back into the water completely unharmed.
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明安 Myoan
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:55 am

I agree with PadmaVonSamba.
It's possible to introduce animal beings to the Dharma.
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

Simon E.
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by Simon E. » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:07 am

Although shrimp is notoriously resistant.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

smcj
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by smcj » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:17 am

These five trades, O monks, should not be taken up by a lay follower: trading with weapons, trading in living beings, trading in meat, trading in intoxicants, trading in poison.

— Anguttara Nikaya V.177, Translated by Martine Batchelor[111]
Personally I eat meat. So I’m not casting stones with this post.

I wouldn’t recommend working in a slaughterhouse. Driving a truck doesn’t sound as bad.
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nowmindful
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Re: driving the seafood truck

Post by nowmindful » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:12 pm

Last time when I was a job seeker, I couldn't find many opportunities that fit into my wide range of my own interpretation of "Right Livelihood". Then I worked in a DIY hardware store which also sells insecticides and traps. If you feel okay, then okay I guess. If you don't want that job, other people also can take over.

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