The Hardest Lessons.

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Simon E.
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The Hardest Lessons.

Post by Simon E. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:13 pm

What are the hardest lessons for you to learn about use of Internet forums?
Mine are..1) Forgetting that what seem amusing or even supportive IRL may seem quite the opposite when sheared of voice tones and facial expressions. And that the Brit sense of humour does not always travel well.
2) Reminding myself that when I have nothing of substance to say to refrain from saying it. Despite any emotional pressure on myself to say it anyway.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

DharmaN00b
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by DharmaN00b » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm

Similar to your first point: the lack of visual or emotional cues. My primate mind doesn't like this very much.

I also do think that sarcasm doesn't register, why would it?

Another thing, it's easy to hide, so being authentic is even more problematic than 'IRL'

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明安 Myoan
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by 明安 Myoan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:34 pm

Patience and time management.
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:39 pm

DharmaN00b wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Similar to your first point: the lack of visual or emotional cues. My primate mind doesn't like this very much.

I also do think that sarcasm doesn't register, why would it?
...
- and -
Simon E. wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:13 pm
What are the hardest lessons for you to learn about use of Internet forums?
Mine are..1) Forgetting that what seem amusing or even supportive IRL may seem quite the opposite when sheared of voice tones and facial expressions. And that the Brit sense of humour does not always travel well.
...
Agreed, and I will add that no statement is nutty enough that everyone can be sure it was intended as a joke. (That's why sarcasm fails, of course.)

Also that we have to remember that we are writing for anyone who happens to pass by, not just to one or two people engaged in the conversation who might be expected to understand us fairly well.

The antidotes to being misunderstood are using more words and sprinkling plenty of emojis around - explaining our state of mind, since no-one is going to pick it up from our body language or facial expression, explaining our cultural context since no-one can see whether we live in the Bible Belt or in Koyasan, mentioning our stage in life since no-one can see that we are 15 or 95 or somewhere in between.

:namaste:
Kim

Simon E.
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by Simon E. » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:48 pm

Aye..👨🏻‍🦳
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

tkp67
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by tkp67 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:54 pm

On the flip side all of this is amazingly informative in regards to mind and self.

I find without the additional information that helps formulate meaning when two humans communicate face to face my mind projects more of what I am reading could mean.

This makes self a bit more tangible and easier to identify which could be seen as a gift depending on one's perspective.

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well wisher
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by well wisher » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:14 am

DharmaN00b wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:22 pm
Similar to your first point: the lack of visual or emotional cues. My primate mind doesn't like this very much.

I also do think that sarcasm doesn't register, why would it?

Another thing, it's easy to hide, so being authentic is even more problematic than 'IRL'
Very true. Unfortunately humor does not really work well in online / cyber communications, so I have given up on it as well.
I even had one my postings deleted by a former moderator here at DW (remember Gigoris?), at my failed attempt at humor regarding non-duality and non-binaries genders. It is very easy to cause misunderstanding via sarcasms and humour.

Oh well, lesson learned! It is better to take Buddhism more seriously anyways, unlike the other more mundane stuff in life (eg. leisure and entertainment)

DharmaN00b
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:25 am

well wisher wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:14 am
... humor does not really work well in online / cyber communications, so I have given up on it as well.
I even had one my postings deleted by a former moderator here at DW (remember Gigoris?), at my failed attempt at humor regarding non-duality and non-binaries genders. It is very easy to cause misunderstanding via sarcasms and humour.

Oh well, lesson learned! It is better to take Buddhism more seriously anyways, unlike the other more mundane stuff in life (eg. leisure and entertainment)
That does make sense. So if I say something online but mean the opposite- particularly in a sensitive topic- it's potentially going to cause a lot of heartache.

Oddly enough I think that Grigoris has a sparkling wit (hopefully speaking present tense isn't too strange). Also, I do think it's possible to judge a persons mood based on things like posting habits or 'joke-iness'. i imagine there's some computer algorithm for this somewhere unscrambling all the human messiness.

It is better to take Buddhist practice seriously but it's not easy separating my playful monkey spirit. I'm far too willy nilly with my emoji use too :reading:

muni
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by muni » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:47 am

I was reflecting on this last days. I need to be so very serious here all the time while there is so much humour in teachings, humor is softening, a laughter relaxing. British friends of me say sometimes strange things (lol) but whatever fellows say, can only be a problem when it is taken serious or heavy.

For own purification of speech could the internet be an invitation to 'talk' only when mindfulness is present? And so a good place of mastering our actions instead they are mastering us?

In any case by humour there is no wish to harm.

"The Dalai Lama famously laughs at every opportunity and often cracks jokes at his teachings."
The fortress of the spacious and timeless expanse has no division into
higher or lower or in between.

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Ayu
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by Ayu » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:07 am

muni wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:47 am
I was reflecting on this last days. I need to be so very serious here all the time while there is so much humour in teachings, humor is softening, a laughter relaxing. British friends of me say sometimes strange things (lol) but whatever fellows say, can only be a problem when it is taken serious or heavy.

For own purification of speech could the internet be an invitation to 'talk' only when mindfulness is present? And so a good place of mastering our actions instead they are mastering us?

In any case by humour there is no wish to harm.

"The Dalai Lama famously laughs at every opportunity and often cracks jokes at his teachings."
Yes, but he is not teaching online with typed words only.

I remember other incidents when I took serious online statements as best jokes. Couldn't stop laughing. This wasn't very helpful for the OP as well.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

DharmaN00b
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:52 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:39 pm
I will add that no statement is nutty enough that everyone can be sure it was intended as a joke. (That's why sarcasm fails, of course.)
I think that it was Lord Byron who once coined the expression that 'truth is stranger than fiction :thinking:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:39 pm

Also that we have to remember that we are writing for anyone who happens to pass by, not just to one or two people engaged in the conversation who might be expected to understand us fairly well.

The antidotes to being misunderstood are using more words and sprinkling plenty of emojis around - explaining our state of mind, since no-one is going to pick it up from our body language or facial expression, explaining our cultural context since no-one can see whether we live in the Bible Belt or in Koyasan, mentioning our stage in life since no-one can see that we are 15 or 95 or somewhere in between.

:namaste:
Kim


Like Simon, I am born and raised in England. You may be aware that Englanders are known to mind their manners, always on point with Please and Thank-you's. As a culture we even use our hazard warning lights to thank others. We can be apologetic to the point of feeling sorry for inconveniencing others with our existence.

On the internet forums it's probably not a good idea to thank everyone all the time. It could even be seen as stealing the limelight from others in public (perhaps a private message of gratitude from time to time). It's funny that not expressing gratitude (signalling virtue) can be classed as rudeness. Of course it is- as you suggest- an unknowable without background detail (If in doubt assume everyone shares the same cultural disposition; they're all wondering if you're subconciously thanking them in absence of the requisite platitude) :mrgreen: By the same token- as an English person- I don't like being made a fuss over, you know, a bit like one of those funny cats that cries for attention then runs away when you move to pet it?

Like I mentioned, truth is stranger (funnier) than fiction!

tingdzin
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Re: The Hardest Lessons.

Post by tingdzin » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:18 am

Good ideas, Kim (and others).

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