Why samsara exists

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:29 am

samsara arises because our universe is filled with infinite phenomena.
the perception of phenomena gives rise to the experience of a perceiver and an object that is perceived.
Thus, a dualism.
because the phenomena perceived appears to be a solid, inherently existing thing
the experience of perceiver is likewise experienced as a 'self'.
clinging to the experience of a self is the essence of samsara.
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:09 am

The short Buddhist answer: ignorance. I would be wary of replies best suited for the syfy forum.
For as long as space endures
And for as long as living beings remain,
Until then may I, too, abide
To dispel the misery of the world.
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DiamondMeru
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by DiamondMeru » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 pm

In meditation I have come to my own conclusion, Samsara is like a vacation for the mind from unconditioned Nibbana. Another words it is like the saying “How can I miss you if you don’t go away.” One lifetime is but a blink of an eye for Buddha mind.

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Cianan
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Cianan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:13 pm

DiamondMeru wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 pm
In meditation I have come to my own conclusion, Samsara is like a vacation for the mind from unconditioned Nibbana. Another words it is like the saying “How can I miss you if you don’t go away.” One lifetime is but a blink of an eye for Buddha mind.
I never thought about going on vacation to head out and suffer for an immeasurable span of time! :tongue:

What mind? What is the unconditioned from which one can take a vacation?
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And is purified simply by realizing this.”
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by DNS » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:40 pm

Short answer: craving

Pali: taṇhā
Sanskrit: tṛṣṇā

Why does life even exist and why is there craving at all? These are unconjecturables.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Other religions don't have adequate answers either, for example why do humans exist, have souls, receive temptations; is it some kind of mad scientist experiment (in monotheistic religions)? Why not just let the humans enjoy heavenly bliss without being tempted into sins, etc? The Garden of Eden story places the blame on the snake and a woman, but we know this is mythology and so gives a much inferior answer.

The Buddhist (short) answer is fitting, compatible with biological evolution too, because it focuses on cravings and the instincts to survival for why we continue as a species and as a person.

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by DiamondMeru » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Cianan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:13 pm
DiamondMeru wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 pm
In meditation I have come to my own conclusion, Samsara is like a vacation for the mind from unconditioned Nibbana. Another words it is like the saying “How can I miss you if you don’t go away.” One lifetime is but a blink of an eye for Buddha mind.
I never thought about going on vacation to head out and suffer for an immeasurable span of time! :tongue:

What mind? What is the unconditioned from which one can take a vacation?
Not all of life is suffering, Dukkha surely exists as not attaining satisfaction on a continual basis but it does not negate the reprieve of momentary happiness. Life is different from unconditioned mind and inferior but not without value. So you can vacation in a place like India and see suffering everywhere and yet learn of great wisdom.
Buddha Mind from what I understand is unconditioned reality which causes those to experience Nirvana in Buddhahood. That mind is in us all, we are united with it when our vacation on earth ends. Or this is how my mind logically and intuitively sees it.

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by joy&peace » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:46 pm

Absolutely correct Diamond Meru.

This talk is beautiful.


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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by joy&peace » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:02 pm

arcturus wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:37 pm
Hello,
can anyone explain me, why samsara exists? Why we are unperfect and imprisoned in samsara? Is it some kind of punishment? I know that we are in samsara because of our karma, but why samsaric system generally exists?
Thank you, Arcturus
Hello

'The Buddha knew of his thought and said to Sariputra: “Are the sun and the moon not clean when a blind man does not see their cleanliness?”

Sariputra said: “World Honoured One, this is the fault of the blind man and not that of the sun and the moon.”

The Buddha said: “Sariputra, because of their (spiritual) blindness, living beings do not see the imposing majesty of the Tathagata’s pure land; this is not the fault of the Tathagata. Sariputra, this land of mine is pure but you do not see its purity.”

Thereupon, Brahma with a tuft of hair on his head (resembling a conch) said to Sariputra: “Don’t think this Buddha land is impure. Why? Because I see that the land of Sakyamuni Buddha is pure and clean, like a heavenly palace.”

Sariputra said: “I see that this world is full of hills, mountains, pits, thorns, stones and earth, which are all unclean.”

Brahma said: “Because your mind is up and down and disagrees with the Buddha-wisdom, you see that this land is unclean. Sariputra, because a Bodhisattva is impartial towards all living beings and his profound mind is pure and clean in accord with the Buddha Dharma, he can see that this Buddha land is (also) pure and clean.”

At that time, the Buddha pressed the toes of His (right ) foot on the ground and the world was suddenly adorned with hundreds and thousands of rare and precious gems of the great chiliocosm, like the precious Majestic Buddha’s pure land adorned with countless precious merits, which the assembly praised as never seen before; in addition each person present found himself seated on a precious lotus throne.

The Buddha said to Sariputra: “Look at the majestic purity of this Buddha land of mine.”

Sariputra said: “World Honoured One, I have never seen and heard of this Buddha land in its majestic purity.”

The Buddha said: “This Buddha land of mine is always pure, but appears filthy so that I can lead people of inferior spirituality to their salvation. This is like the food of devas which takes various colours according to the merits of each individual eater. So, Sariputra, the man whose mind is pure sees this world in its majestic purity.”

When this Buddha land (i.e. the world) appeared in its majestic purity, the five hundred sons of elders, who came with Ratna-rasi, realized the patient endurance of the uncreate (anutpattika-dharma-ksanti), and eighty-four thousand people developed their minds set on Supreme Enlightenment (anuttara-samyak-sambodhi).

The Buddha then stopped pressing His toes on the ground and the world returned to its previous (filthy) condition. Thirty-two thousand devas and men aspiring to the sravaka stage understood the impermanence of all phenomena, kept from earthly impurities and achieved the Dharma-eye (which sees the truth of the four noble truths); eight thousand bhiksus kept from phenomena and succeeded in putting an end to the stream of transmigration (thus realizing arhatship).'

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Vimala ... Sutra.html

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Cianan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:39 pm

DiamondMeru wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:54 pm
Cianan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:13 pm
DiamondMeru wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 pm
In meditation I have come to my own conclusion, Samsara is like a vacation for the mind from unconditioned Nibbana. Another words it is like the saying “How can I miss you if you don’t go away.” One lifetime is but a blink of an eye for Buddha mind.
I never thought about going on vacation to head out and suffer for an immeasurable span of time! :tongue:

What mind? What is the unconditioned from which one can take a vacation?
Not all of life is suffering, Dukkha surely exists as not attaining satisfaction on a continual basis but it does not negate the reprieve of momentary happiness. Life is different from unconditioned mind and inferior but not without value. So you can vacation in a place like India and see suffering everywhere and yet learn of great wisdom.
Buddha Mind from what I understand is unconditioned reality which causes those to experience Nirvana in Buddhahood. That mind is in us all, we are united with it when our vacation on earth ends. Or this is how my mind logically and intuitively sees it.
I wasn't looking to debate, but rather hoping that I could give you food for thought.

All phenomena of samsara, even mundane joy, are marked by suffering, though it may be devoid of the suffering of suffering. There are the suffering of suffering, the suffering of change and the all-pervasive suffering of conditioning. Sentient beings do not know freedom from suffering for even a moment.

Nirvana is interdependent on samsara; the unconditioned is interdependent on the conditioned. There is no beginning or end to either. If there is no beginning to a sentient being's ignorance and existence in samsara, how can they be said to have "gone on vacation" or come to miss nirvana?

It is impossible to establish the inherent existence of the minds of either sentient beings or buddhas, both of which are empty of themselves. What is it that could come to be deluded or awakened? Delusion and awakening are likewise interdependent concepts that can't be established as inherently real.
“All is an adornment for clarifying wisdom,
And is purified simply by realizing this.”
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:54 am

arcturus wrote: Hello,
can anyone explain me, why samsara exists? Why we are unperfect and imprisoned in samsara? Is it some kind of punishment? I know that we are in samsara because of our karma, but why samsaric system generally exists?
...what happened, that we appeared in samsara?
There are some misunderstanding of the nature of things, inherent in these questions.
That may be part of the reason why the answer seems elusive.

"We" don't appear or occur in samsara. We can nuse the expression, "beings dwelling in samsara" but it's not like a place. It's more of a state of mind. Like wallowing in sadness.
Also, to say we are in samsara becauseof karma also misses the mark a little. It isn;t some kind of punishment.

Actions by beings, because they do not understand the true nature of things, results in suffering.
It's like hiking in the woods. If you have a map and a compass, and you know where you are, it's fun.
But if you don't know where you are, you are wandering around for hours trying to find the way out, or even a path to follow,
then you are having a terrible time.
Is there anything different about the forest? No. it's the very same forest.
But, if you don't know the true nature of things, you don't know which way is north, or where to find water, then the result is suffering.

Another post mentioned that samsara isn't constant suffering.
It's true, that generally speaking, maybe we are not in a constant state of agony. But that's not what Dukkha means.
Instead of "suffering", a better translation might be, "perpetual, restless dissatisfaction".

Suppose you see a loved one or dear friend who you haven't seen in years, and you are just so happy, you both just hug and just feel so wonderful! It's unbelievable. you never want to be separated again. You can't imagine a warmer, happier state of happiness. You wish it could last forever!
But what happens if you don't stop hugging? In a few minutes, this same hug will be very uncomfortable. You'll be like, "okay, let go ...let go". But why? It's the same hug it was just moments ago. The reason is that the mind suffers from perpetual, restless dissatisfaction.

You will have experienced this if you do sitting meditation. When you first learn to do it, just sitting there, just doing nothing except watching or counting your breaths or whatever, it gets boring really fast, and your mind jumps all over the place. But with practice, your mind learns to settle down and you can sit for hours in perfect, relaxed concentration. But it's still your mind. it isn't somebody else's mind.

Samsara is the experience of mind which clings to the appearance of perceptions as having inherent reality.
So, why does mind do that? Why does it have that ignorance regarding the way things are?
I think, some other people have addressed that. The illusion of self-and-other, etc.I hope this was helpful
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Vasana » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:49 am

Cianan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:39 pm


Nirvana is interdependent on samsara; the unconditioned is interdependent on the conditioned. There is no beginning or end to either. If there is no beginning to a sentient being's ignorance and existence in samsara, how can they be said to have "gone on vacation" or come to miss nirvana?

It is impossible to establish the inherent existence of the minds of either sentient beings or buddhas, both of which are empty of themselves. What is it that could come to be deluded or awakened? Delusion and awakening are likewise interdependent concepts that can't be established as inherently real.
Yet the conventional law of karma, cause and effect operates unfailingly. There are ultimately no beings but deluded grasping and painful experience still appears to manifest.

You probably know that but it's always worth highlighting to collectively avoid the pitiful of ignoring the relative functioning of karma and suffering despite them not having inherent self nature.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Cianan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:14 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:49 am
Cianan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:39 pm


Nirvana is interdependent on samsara; the unconditioned is interdependent on the conditioned. There is no beginning or end to either. If there is no beginning to a sentient being's ignorance and existence in samsara, how can they be said to have "gone on vacation" or come to miss nirvana?

It is impossible to establish the inherent existence of the minds of either sentient beings or buddhas, both of which are empty of themselves. What is it that could come to be deluded or awakened? Delusion and awakening are likewise interdependent concepts that can't be established as inherently real.
Yet the conventional law of karma, cause and effect operates unfailingly. There are ultimately no beings but deluded grasping and painful experience still appears to manifest.

You probably know that but it's always worth highlighting to collectively avoid the pitiful of ignoring the relative functioning of karma and suffering despite them not having inherent self nature.
Yes, absolutely! Thank you. While expanding your view and contemplations to the great mystery of the Mahayana, the inseparablity of samsara and nirvana, don't conceptually convince yourself that causality is a non-matter. A sentient being may be conceptually aware of the relative nature of karma, but when the appropriate karma ripens, they will nevertheless be absolutely convinced that they are experiencing the hell realms.

A sublime being famously remarked, "One's view may be as vast as the sky, but one's regard for cause and effect should be as finely sifted as barley flour."
“All is an adornment for clarifying wisdom,
And is purified simply by realizing this.”
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am

Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:38 am

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am
Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
Samsara, where infinite loops of suffering happen. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:54 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:38 am
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am
Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
Samsara, where infinite loops of suffering happen. ;)
Yes, but . . . "all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:10 am

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:54 am
Yes, but . . . "all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
Sure, if you are realised. Or enlightened.

But come and tell this to the refugees escaping war, torture, rape and murder that I see every day. You may get a different answer.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:29 am

Yes, of course we don’t experience the world as total bliss, but I understand the quote, “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss", as pointing to what we are, not what we experience.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:29 am
Yes, of course we don’t experience the world as total bliss, but I understand the quote, “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss", as pointing to what we are, not what we experience.
Is what we are and what we experience two different things? So where is this thing that I am, and if what I am is not doing the experiencing, then who is?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by kirtu » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:18 am

"Samsara exists because of grasping." Khenpo Kalsang Gyaltsen
SONG TO INSPIRE MYSELF
By Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
Edited by Acharya Migmar Tseten

I prostrate to Manjughosa.

I am gripped by defilement, faithful to samsaric Dharma,
enjoy talking, diligent in speaking of the faults of others,
without comprehending my own faults, I compete with the inferior,
turn away from this conduct which is opposed to benefit!

Be diligent in recalling (the faults) of the dharmas of samsara,
always remember going for refuge
to the Three Jewels day and night;
be diligent in any of the vows of individual liberation that have been obtained.

In order to hold the lineage of the Bodhisattvas,
be very faithful to bodhicitta,
recite the Seven Limb Prayer,
and the Sutra of the Three Heaps during the three times.

Without sleeping, practice yoga (of sadhana) diligently
in the first and last parts of the night.
After arising from the meditation sessions,
practice the path of conduct as it occurs in the sutras and treatises.

Persevere in the root and branch samayas,
be diligent in offering to the Holy Guru,
protect the minds of all sentient beings.

When waves of negative conceptually occur,
abandon them by developing the antidotes well.
If you do not inspire yourself,
where will there be someone else who will give you inspiration?

In this way you will be well inspired!
It is very rare to practice according to the texts,
if one has not avowed from this non-spiritual conduct,
one will not obtain a positive result.

Composing this inspiration to myself,
I request the Gurus to tolerate any contradictions.

This 'Inspiration to Myself', written by the Shakya Upasaka Dragpa Gyaltsen is well accomplished.
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by kirtu » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:26 am

The Root of Samsara
By Kyabje Lama Zopa Rinpoche
Wherever we are born in any of the six realms—in the lowest, unimaginable suffering state of the narak realm, or in the highest, what’s called the point of samsara—all these realms are completely under the control of delusion and karma. There is not one single realm that is not formed by delusion and karma. This is the pervasive compounding suffering of our aggregates.
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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