Meditation techniques in each tradition

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Re: Meditation techniques in each tradition

Post by Malcolm »

Astus wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:47 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:28 pmThis is still just referring to a mind devoid of concepts. So, it still does not escape the criticism.
Not really the same. There are things, but there is no attachment to them. It's possible to match it with there being no longer the concept of self that puts concepts into a samsaric frame. A little more on "just as they are":

"At 360° all things are just as they are; the truth is just like this. 'Like this' means that there is no attachment to anything. This point is exactly the same as the zero point: we arrive where we began, where we have always been. The difference is that O° is attachment thinking, while 360° is no-attachment thinking."
(Dropping Ashes on the Buddha, p 7)
So according to the definition above, this zero attachment thinking is not true emptiness, since it is thinking.
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Re: Meditation techniques in each tradition

Post by Astus »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:53 pm So according to the definition above, this zero attachment thinking is not true emptiness, since it is thinking.
I think Seung Sahn followed a different type of terminology, where emptiness has a more limited or extreme meaning, like what you can find in Tiantai.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.

1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Meditation techniques in each tradition

Post by fckw »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:26 am Thank you both for the replies. I can already tell that Dzogchen is a very deep meditation that may have many practitioners questioning in the beginning. With my prior experience in Vipassana, Metta, and Samatha meditation I am confused at how someone would actually practice Dzogchen by your descriptions. My experience in Vipassana is in the Mahasi Sayadaw style and from what I can tell Dzogchen seems very similar, just not actually noting the experiences. So if one is sitting and meditating and an emotion pops up or a thought one is aware of the thought in Dzogchen? The same style was taught to me instead one would note this experience as saying "feeling" "feeling" or "thinking" "thinking". Do I understand this correctly or am I far off?
I have experience in practicing both systems. The way to practice is very different, so much so that it's not worth contrasting both against each other - unless you have had sufficient experience with both yourself. For example, in Therevada Vipassana there exists nothing comparable to the "base" that is a central doctrinal element of Dzogchen. From a practice perspective there is no "natural state" to rest in in Therevada Vipassana, in fact there is absolutely nothing to rest in, therefore "resting in" as a practice instruction is meaningless in Therevada Vipassana, yet is crucial to correct Dzogchen practice. And we don't even talk about Tögel, which again is something for which not even remotely an equivalent in Therevada practice exists.
Besides, it is common for both Mahamudra and Dzogchen to receive pointing out instructions from a teacher, which is usually not the case in Therevada Vipassana. This could be changed, in theory, by introducing pointing out instructions also to Therevada Vipassana practice, but it's nothing that has a firm place in the tradition. Then there are generation stage (including guru yoga) and completion-stage practices in all Vajrayana traditions, and again nothing even remotely equivalent in Therevada.
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Re: Meditation techniques in each tradition

Post by avatamsaka3 »

How do these practices differ
Find teachers for methods you are interested in, study the methods as best you can, and practice them. That's the best way to answer the question.
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