Why samsara exists

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Jeff H
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Jeff H »

clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
Samsara - where awakening needs to happen. :cry:
Where now is my mind engaged? - Shantideva
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

Samsara exists because you haven't realized Nirvana ?
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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde »

Grigoris wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am
clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:29 am Yes, of course we don’t experience the world as total bliss, but I understand the quote, “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss", as pointing to what we are, not what we experience.
Is what we are and what we experience two different things? So where is this thing that I am, and if what I am is not doing the experiencing, then who is?
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.

How do you understand the underlined statement:
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris »

clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pmI am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
So what are you?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde »

Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
Snowbear
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Snowbear »

clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Are you experiencing bliss now, clyde?
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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

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clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pmBut you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know. ;)

That's a conversation stopper if ever I have seen one! :smile: I think I'll be using it more often.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
DharmaJunior
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by DharmaJunior »

all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
Thomas Jefferson

I think this says at least a little bit about engaged Buddhism (living Dharma)
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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde »

Grigoris; Yes, I see your point about my answer. It wasn’t meant in that way.

This evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris »

clyde wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:42 amThis evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.
And yet utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss! :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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weitsicht
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by weitsicht »

@Arcturus My teacher uses to say "why is this, why is that? There cannot be more useless questions."
I don't mean to disdain you by saying that rather than trying to shift your focus.

Just see for yourself what you are, what the essence of it is. Whether you understand the notion of samsara fully or about what you may have doubts. Put anything in relation with the perceiver rather than entering a theoretical debate.

Other than that I advise studying the initial verses of the Evocation of Samantabhadra ref. also my footer
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx8ftzvmr79iv ... y.pdf?dl=0
or further audio explanations http://eifelaudio.simplybeing.co.uk/201 ... tumn-2017/
clyde wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
Well, there is this text by Jigme Lingpa so dear to me with a sentence I still cannot fully penetrate:
Be what knows the arising

how about that, @Clyde?

(http://unfetteredmind.org/revelations-o ... sent-good/)
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde »

My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
Varis
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Varis »

There is no greater purpose for the existence of samsara.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris »

clyde wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:01 am
My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa
Which again begs the question: Is your nature separate to samsaric existence? The same as samsaric existence? Both? Neither?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Malcolm
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Malcolm »

I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:07 pm I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.
So we just stand there like an idiot when a truck is comming ?
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
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Aryjna
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Aryjna »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

Aryjna wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:34 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?
Yes
I'm having lunch.....
And sitting in a palace
With a king...

I am the lucky servant
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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris »

Can we please get back on topic people? Thanks.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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