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Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:25 pm
by Jeff H
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am
Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
Samsara - where awakening needs to happen. :cry:

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:21 pm
by Kunga Lhadzom
Samsara exists because you haven't realized Nirvana ?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
by clyde
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:29 am
Yes, of course we don’t experience the world as total bliss, but I understand the quote, “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss", as pointing to what we are, not what we experience.
Is what we are and what we experience two different things? So where is this thing that I am, and if what I am is not doing the experiencing, then who is?
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.

How do you understand the underlined statement:
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:18 pm
by Grigoris
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
So what are you?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm
by clyde
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:33 pm
by Snowbear
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Are you experiencing bliss now, clyde?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:34 pm
by Grigoris
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm
But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know. ;)

That's a conversation stopper if ever I have seen one! :smile: I think I'll be using it more often.

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:58 pm
by DharmaN00b
all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
Thomas Jefferson

I think this says at least a little bit about engaged Buddhism (living Dharma)

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:42 am
by clyde
Grigoris; Yes, I see your point about my answer. It wasn’t meant in that way.

This evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:30 am
by Grigoris
clyde wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:42 am
This evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.
And yet utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss! :smile:

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:58 pm
by weitsicht
@Arcturus My teacher uses to say "why is this, why is that? There cannot be more useless questions."
I don't mean to disdain you by saying that rather than trying to shift your focus.

Just see for yourself what you are, what the essence of it is. Whether you understand the notion of samsara fully or about what you may have doubts. Put anything in relation with the perceiver rather than entering a theoretical debate.

Other than that I advise studying the initial verses of the Evocation of Samantabhadra ref. also my footer
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx8ftzvmr79iv ... y.pdf?dl=0
or further audio explanations http://eifelaudio.simplybeing.co.uk/201 ... tumn-2017/
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm

I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
Well, there is this text by Jigme Lingpa so dear to me with a sentence I still cannot fully penetrate:
Be what knows the arising

how about that, @Clyde?

(http://unfetteredmind.org/revelations-o ... sent-good/)

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:01 am
by clyde
My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:59 am
by Varis
There is no greater purpose for the existence of samsara.

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:31 am
by Grigoris
clyde wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:01 am
My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa
Which again begs the question: Is your nature separate to samsaric existence? The same as samsaric existence? Both? Neither?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:07 pm
by Malcolm
I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:16 pm
by Kunga Lhadzom
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:07 pm
I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.
So we just stand there like an idiot when a truck is comming ?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm
by Kunga Lhadzom
I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:34 pm
by Aryjna
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm
I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:43 pm
by Kunga Lhadzom
Aryjna wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:34 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm
I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?
Yes
I'm having lunch.....
And sitting in a palace
With a king...

I am the lucky servant

Re: Why samsara exists

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:11 pm
by Grigoris
Can we please get back on topic people? Thanks.