Dharmakaya in Mahayana

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Minobu
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Re: What is Dharmakaya?

Post by Minobu » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:16 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:48 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:08 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:56 pm


I found that post useful. It is not poetic, it has clear answers about what dharmakaya is.
ok well maybe i missed something...can you tell me from what you read what dharmakaya is then ...please.
But it is explained in a few different ways in all these quotes. I cannot say it better myself of course, and it may create confusion.
so try telling me in plain english that everyone can understand.
and by the by...i get what i call their poetry is pointing to..i get it...but expressing it is another story...
if you can't express it in plain english ...then you still do not know...
i can explain sunyata in plain english...but dharmakaya or Tathagatagarbha ...

you try!
please.
it's not enough just saying they said it nice ...

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Aryjna
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: What is Dharmakaya?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:58 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:16 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:48 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:08 pm

ok well maybe i missed something...can you tell me from what you read what dharmakaya is then ...please.
But it is explained in a few different ways in all these quotes. I cannot say it better myself of course, and it may create confusion.
so try telling me in plain english that everyone can understand.
and by the by...i get what i call their poetry is pointing to..i get it...but expressing it is another story...
if you can't express it in plain english ...then you still do not know...
i can explain sunyata in plain english...but dharmakaya or Tathagatagarbha ...

you try!
please.
it's not enough just saying they said it nice ...
Krodha also said in the first page that it is the nature of the mind which is a pretty short way to put it, and sounds correct to me. Also, between the quotes there are explanations in more plain language, such as:
Thus we can see that dharmakāya can be said to be synonymous with emptiness, however the dharmakāya is specifically the total realization of emptiness at the time of the result which dawns due to the accumulation of wisdom, which is why Gampopa states clearly that "ultimate buddhahood is dharmakāya". In this respect we come to understand that buddhanature [tathāgatagarbha], dharmakāya and emptiness are not different, and that dharmakāya is released from the obscuring factors that render it "tathāgatagarbha" once the total realization of emptiness occurs
So, accepting this as correct, and if you already know what emptiness is, there is no problem.

muni
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: What is Dharmakaya?

Post by muni » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pm

Spelare wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:47 am
muni wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:31 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:27 pm


Sure you did:

Ah! Is a gap.
Dharmakaya cannot be revealed by being caught up in thinking.

Milarepa: “In the gap between two thoughts, thought-free wakefulness manifest unceasingly.”

“All movement of thought is the play of original wakefulness".
"The essence of what thinks is dharmakaya. The thinking itself is not dharmakaya”. Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
This phrasing could give the impression that a gap between thoughts is some kind of prerequisite for recognizing dharmakaya. If you were searching for the sky, you could wait for the clouds to pass, or for a gap between two clouds to open up. But are the clouds something other than the sky? And does the sky have to appear clear and blue in order for it to be the sky, or is it still the sky regardless of the weather and lighting conditions at a given moment?

Does dharmakaya disappear when there are thoughts and reappear when they are absent? Where did those thoughts come from? Where do they arise? What are they made of?
Thank you, as I hadn't seen it so. Is Chokyi Nyinma Rinpoche not just saying what you explain? “All movement of thought is the play of original wakefulness".

The reason for the gap of Milarepa is to at least not being caught up into thinking. Like perhaps as well the exclamation PHAT! Being caught up in concepts (distraction) or grasping experience, is of no help.
Recognizing thoughts are inseparable clarity or free play. But being caught up in conceptual thinking dharmakaya remains hidden.

When recognized, thoughts do not stain at all neither make it more clear.
Precious masters are Dharmakaya, inviting us into same Nature. They are not caught up in thinking, creating dreamlike realities ( distraction).

Thoughts can be used, without being confused or dragged away in them, and so not then creating the dreamlike reality where we live in.

Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo said : “we are on the river bank, looking at the river flowing”. Not sure this makes sense.
What are they made of?
Stones, my dear. :smile:

all free like this blah blah.
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves” H H Dalai Lama

"Relax."

Simon E.
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana

Post by Simon E. » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:08 pm

None of this makes sense outside of a committed relationship with a bona fide flesh and blood teacher.
Other than that its just an exchange of subjective opinion.
We do not reach an understanding of Dharma by comparing our understanding of concepts, but by actions directed by a teacher.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

muni
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana

Post by muni » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:53 pm

:good: We need direct connection to be introduced in same nature.
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves” H H Dalai Lama

"Relax."

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