Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Dharmakaya in Mahayana
I have kind of skimmed scattered Dharmakaya references in various books, the "richest" of which was one volume by D.T. Suzuki. The notion continues to be mysterious to me, and I was hoping that some readers on here could refine a few points that are puzzling me.
My understanding is that the Dharmakaya is the most inclusive, "first" Buddha Body. It is unknowable to the human intellect and is manifested more "palpably" in the other two Bodies.
The Dharmakaya is not God, a god, or a divine Creator, yet it is described as the primal source of everything. Do I have this correct? Because if It is "the" Source, would It not also be the causal factor for Samsara and Samsara's associated limitations and sufferings?
Even if the Dharmakaya is not a creator, but is nonetheless "the Source", how is its activity explained, if not by creation? Does it express itself in, or as, a kind of serial "Emanation" as in the Kabbalah's conception of the Ein Sof, or in Gnosticism's conception of emanations derived from the Pleroma?
If anyone would care to address these questions, it would be much appreciated.
My understanding is that the Dharmakaya is the most inclusive, "first" Buddha Body. It is unknowable to the human intellect and is manifested more "palpably" in the other two Bodies.
The Dharmakaya is not God, a god, or a divine Creator, yet it is described as the primal source of everything. Do I have this correct? Because if It is "the" Source, would It not also be the causal factor for Samsara and Samsara's associated limitations and sufferings?
Even if the Dharmakaya is not a creator, but is nonetheless "the Source", how is its activity explained, if not by creation? Does it express itself in, or as, a kind of serial "Emanation" as in the Kabbalah's conception of the Ein Sof, or in Gnosticism's conception of emanations derived from the Pleroma?
If anyone would care to address these questions, it would be much appreciated.
Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
steveb1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:31 am I have kind of skimmed scattered Dharmakaya references in various books, the "richest" of which was one volume by D.T. Suzuki. The notion continues to be mysterious to me, and I was hoping that some readers on here could refine a few points that are puzzling me.
My understanding is that the Dharmakaya is the most inclusive, "first" Buddha Body. It is unknowable to the human intellect and is manifested more "palpably" in the other two Bodies.
The Dharmakaya is not God, a god, or a divine Creator, yet it is described as the primal source of everything. Do I have this correct? Because if It is "the" Source, would It not also be the causal factor for Samsara and Samsara's associated limitations and sufferings?
Even if the Dharmakaya is not a creator, but is nonetheless "the Source", how is its activity explained, if not by creation? Does it express itself in, or as, a kind of serial "Emanation" as in the Kabbalah's conception of the Ein Sof, or in Gnosticism's conception of emanations derived from the Pleroma?
If anyone would care to address these questions, it would be much appreciated.
Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Hi Steve - here is an OP on this question that might be a bit controversial but I really relate to
https://brightwayzen.org/resources/kyog ... ic-buddha/
I think the origin of Dharmakaya is the teaching ‘He that sees the Dharma sees Me.’
https://brightwayzen.org/resources/kyog ... ic-buddha/
I think the origin of Dharmakaya is the teaching ‘He that sees the Dharma sees Me.’
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Thank you so very much - I will apply my attention to this interesting-looking article.Wayfarer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:23 am Hi Steve - here is an OP on this question that might be a bit controversial but I really relate to
https://brightwayzen.org/resources/kyog ... ic-buddha/
I think the origin of Dharmakaya is the teaching ‘He that sees the Dharma sees Me.’
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Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Karma from a previous universe, avidya..ignorance is what 'created' samsara, so samsara is a unbroken chain until enlightenment, with no true beginning by my understanding. Now how the Dharma Kaya relates to or 'contains' samsara is an interesting question and not something I've seen specifically answered exactly. However, ultimately samsara and nirvana are nondual..so at the level of Dharma Kaya nothing is created or destroyed, nothing arises or ceases etc.
My hunch is that a ballpark answer is that samsara only sees itself, the whole creation/destruction etc. Thing -is- samsara, it's a way of seeing, or a limitation on seeing, not merely a collection of temporal and spatial phenomena. Nothing is actually created or destroyed, so there is nothing to 'emanate' from or to.
My hunch is that a ballpark answer is that samsara only sees itself, the whole creation/destruction etc. Thing -is- samsara, it's a way of seeing, or a limitation on seeing, not merely a collection of temporal and spatial phenomena. Nothing is actually created or destroyed, so there is nothing to 'emanate' from or to.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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What is Dharmakaya?
Hello all,
I have been coming across this concept several times in my exploration of Mahayana, and I am simply baffled as to what it is supposed to be. is the Dharmakaya essentially 'God' in Buddhism? A being that exists as the 'source' of all things seems to fit in very well conceptually with the Tao, or God or something similar, but I can't really find a clear explanation of this concept anywhere. I guess I am confused because initially I was informed that there is no concept of a creator, or supreme being in Buddhism, yet this seems to be exactly that (for instance, I read that it is said if the universe and all physical matter were destroyed, the Dharmakaya body would still exist... it is a being that is not conditioned, but how could it come to be without working its way through rebirth to Buddhahood?). It seems like something that wasn't created or 'born' but has always existed, and I guess I was under the impression there was nothing 'eternal' in Buddhist thought. Any clarification would be much appreciated.
Ethan
I have been coming across this concept several times in my exploration of Mahayana, and I am simply baffled as to what it is supposed to be. is the Dharmakaya essentially 'God' in Buddhism? A being that exists as the 'source' of all things seems to fit in very well conceptually with the Tao, or God or something similar, but I can't really find a clear explanation of this concept anywhere. I guess I am confused because initially I was informed that there is no concept of a creator, or supreme being in Buddhism, yet this seems to be exactly that (for instance, I read that it is said if the universe and all physical matter were destroyed, the Dharmakaya body would still exist... it is a being that is not conditioned, but how could it come to be without working its way through rebirth to Buddhahood?). It seems like something that wasn't created or 'born' but has always existed, and I guess I was under the impression there was nothing 'eternal' in Buddhist thought. Any clarification would be much appreciated.
Ethan
南無阿弥陀仏
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu
なむ あみだ ぶつ
Namu Amida Butsu
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Dharmakāya is the nature of your mind.
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Re: What is Dharmakaya?
I guess the nature of phenomena, emptiness, is taught to be unborn since under analysis from Madhyamakas like Nagarjuna any dharma is found not be arisen.doublerepukken wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:44 am Hello all,
I have been coming across this concept several times in my exploration of Mahayana, and I am simply baffled as to what it is supposed to be. is the Dharmakaya essentially 'God' in Buddhism? A being that exists as the 'source' of all things seems to fit in very well conceptually with the Tao, or God or something similar, but I can't really find a clear explanation of this concept anywhere. I guess I am confused because initially I was informed that there is no concept of a creator, or supreme being in Buddhism, yet this seems to be exactly that (for instance, I read that it is said if the universe and all physical matter were destroyed, the Dharmakaya body would still exist... it is a being that is not conditioned, but how could it come to be without working its way through rebirth to Buddhahood?). It seems like something that wasn't created or 'born' but has always existed, and I guess I was under the impression there was nothing 'eternal' in Buddhist thought. Any clarification would be much appreciated.
Ethan
Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Thank you for the clarifications. I'd mostly forgot about non-duality as well as Samsara being how we preceive things.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:32 am Karma from a previous universe, avidya..ignorance is what 'created' samsara, so samsara is a unbroken chain until enlightenment, with no true beginning by my understanding. Now how the Dharma Kaya relates to or 'contains' samsara is an interesting question and not something I've seen specifically answered exactly. However, ultimately samsara and nirvana are nondual..so at the level of Dharma Kaya nothing is created or destroyed, nothing arises or ceases etc.
My hunch is that a ballpark answer is that samsara only sees itself, the whole creation/destruction etc. Thing -is- samsara, it's a way of seeing, or a limitation on seeing, not merely a collection of temporal and spatial phenomena. Nothing is actually created or destroyed, so there is nothing to 'emanate' from or to.
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Between two thoughts, there is a gap, indescridable openess revealing.
“We are each living in our own soap opera. We do not see things as they really are. We see only our interpretations. This is because our minds are always so busy...But when the mind calms down, it becomes clear. This mental clarity enables us to see things as they really are, instead of projecting our commentary on everything.” Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
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Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Part of me wanted to take a picture of my shoe, upload it here, and ask "is this dharmakāya?". It might sound like a joke or like I would be mocking Buddhism, but that is a very real question/scandal, apparently, in (certain) "Buddhism(s)". Is dharmakāya also dharmadhātu? What is the difference between them?
Some teachers will give you a description of dharmakāya that includes all noumena within it.
Some teachers will give you a description of dharmakāya that includes all noumena within it.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Re: What is Dharmakaya?
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Dharmakāya is not the space between two thoughts.
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
~Chatral Rinpoche
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Dharma, stuff happens. Kaya, where it happensdoublerepukken wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:44 am Hello all,
I have been coming across this concept several times in my exploration of Mahayana, and I am simply baffled as to what it is supposed to be. is the Dharmakaya essentially 'God' in Buddhism? A being that exists as the 'source' of all things seems to fit in very well conceptually with the Tao, or God or something similar, but I can't really find a clear explanation of this concept anywhere. I guess I am confused because initially I was informed that there is no concept of a creator, or supreme being in Buddhism, yet this seems to be exactly that (for instance, I read that it is said if the universe and all physical matter were destroyed, the Dharmakaya body would still exist... it is a being that is not conditioned, but how could it come to be without working its way through rebirth to Buddhahood?). It seems like something that wasn't created or 'born' but has always existed, and I guess I was under the impression there was nothing 'eternal' in Buddhist thought. Any clarification would be much appreciated.
Ethan
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
This is just a thought, so see what you think. Thrangu Rinpoche says:Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:32 am Now how the Dharma Kaya relates to or 'contains' samsara is an interesting question and not something I've seen specifically answered exactly.
So this is how dharmakaya relates to samsara. Make the mistake and samsara is experienced, correct the mistake and dharmakaya is experienced.All illusory appearances of condition existence are only an illusion they are only the result of a mistake, of a misapprehension of the truth, they are only a delusion..... When we speak about liberation it means the end of all mistakes the end of Illusion. What we need to do is awake and from this mistake which is like sleep. Or we can say to remove the mistake..... So we say "awakened" or cleared away" rather than "to remove or eliminate", because it is not a matter of taking away and external object, but is a matter of understanding our mistake, our illusion.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
~Chatral Rinpoche
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Nobody said "is".
“We are each living in our own soap opera. We do not see things as they really are. We see only our interpretations. This is because our minds are always so busy...But when the mind calms down, it becomes clear. This mental clarity enables us to see things as they really are, instead of projecting our commentary on everything.” Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
I did not say that you did say that in any case. But what relevance does the space between two thoughts have to this thread?
Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Sure you did:
Between two thoughts, there is a gap, indescridable openess revealing.