rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

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Supramundane
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rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Supramundane » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am

One thing that never ceases to impress itself upon me is the inter-connectedness of Buddhist concepts, all seem to complement each other and fit together like pieces in a puzzle, especially in Mahayana: all beings are interconnected. Enlightenment of individual beings is in a sense interconnected through the mediating channels of the Bodhisattvas.

So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?

interested to hear your comments.

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Vasana
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Vasana » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:45 am

Rebirth is a link in the 12 chains of dependent origination so I guess you could call that interconnection.

That Bodbisattvas realize the fruition Kayas of Buddhahood is also due to the fact of their being sentient beings to be the object of compassion and merit accumulation. So you could say Buddhas and Bodbisattvas are interconnected with beings in that way too. Then there are the vows and commitments of realized beings and the pure aspirations of beings which creates further interconnection.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by muni » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:32 am

A step too far. It depends, since also interconnected.

But then is there a step too far, as a step out of the net of Indra?

Since there is 'no being' existing out of itself, can there be birth out of itself without causes and conditions? (12 links of dependence...)
Mind or body, or both, or a perhaps a self somehow outside of these is making this self-birth happening?

I am so thinking...Embryology, compounded aggregates, mind and its 'surroundings' with whatever hops around there, we all breath the same air...

We are not a self establishment, such inherent establishment is not, even samsara is very much experiencing such inherent nature of self. Bodhisattvas not. Or?
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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seeker242
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am

Supramundane wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am
So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?
Definitely not. You could even go so far as to say that all beings have at one point been your mother. :smile:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by boda » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:17 pm

Supramundane wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am
So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?
Hello Supramundane,

How could it not be? But on the other hand, if it were interconnected that would mean that all karma is interconnected, so for instance my actions would be more like our actions. That can’t be right, right?

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Supramundane
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Supramundane » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:28 am

Thank you for your comments.

i am trying to imagine the intellectual consequences of horizontal AND vertical interconnection.

It makes me see rebirth and karma in a new light.

as a species we must die; for there to be birth there must be death. for there to be evolution, we must die. we are born to die.

our existence is but an expedience to an end. but we do not know what that end is.

if my karma radiates around me and beyond my death in an uninterrupted chain, this makes sense.

So Indra's net is multi-dimensional; it must have dimensions we have not dreamed of or glimpsed...

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Supramundane
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Supramundane » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:29 am

boda wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:17 pm
Supramundane wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am
So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?
Hello Supramundane,

How could it not be? But on the other hand, if it were interconnected that would mean that all karma is interconnected, so for instance my actions would be more like our actions. That can’t be right, right?
yes and no.

i mean, the way i see it now, my karma is mine and mine alone so far as it is my intent that gives birth to karma. but yes, ours in the fact that the consequences of my actions emanate like a persistent radiation in all directions, connecting us all, even those of us who have not yet been born...?

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Virgo
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Virgo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 am

All beings are interconnected in this web.

Kevin...
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ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
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Supramundane
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Supramundane » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:55 am

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am
Supramundane wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am
So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?
Definitely not. You could even go so far as to say that all beings have at one point been your mother. :smile:
true we are all connected in ways that we cannot imagine. we are all brothers, sisters, fathers, etc.

i once told my son when he was being particularly naughty, "remember, you may have children of your own someday".

"You too", he answered.

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 am

Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 am
All beings are interconnected in this web.

Kevin...
Who's the spider :spy:
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

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Supramundane
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by Supramundane » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:30 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 am
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 am
All beings are interconnected in this web.

Kevin...
Who's the spider :spy:
Indra :P

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seeker242
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by seeker242 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:56 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 am
Virgo wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 am
All beings are interconnected in this web.

Kevin...
Who's the spider :spy:
Everyone has been both the spider and the fly. :smile:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

muni
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Re: rebirth the ultimate interconnection?

Post by muni » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:28 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am
Supramundane wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am
So am i taking things a step too far if i posit that rebirth is a type of interconnection?
Definitely not. You could even go so far as to say that all beings have at one point been your mother. :smile
Oh no! This is a step too far. "I" want to get out of here, where is the exit of nature - net? :alien:

Confusions-delusions seems to be the 'exit', abiding in a restricted dreamworld.
A side note, still related somehow:
Modern concepts of space, time, and nature reinforce estrangement, isolation, meaninglessness, self-centeredness, and despair. We need a reality that’s a suitable habitat for our caring, connected presence.
Exclusion is not possible other than in delusion.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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