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How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:41 pm
by Tenma
When one's mind is very hard and intense with materialism, mundanity, hatred, and so forth, and certain practices against this are only limited within a time, how else can one train the mind into concentration and so forth? I'm afraid the misuse of antidotes may have become useless against the poison now.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:27 am
by Wayfarer
The only real antidote is reality itself. There’s no point bandying catch-phrases and Buddhist terminology about. See things as they are, unadorned, without seeking to change it, modify it or escape from it. The very desire to change it is a way of not facing up to it. If you can face up to that, then that in itself will bring about a change.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:38 am
by stevie
For some disenchantment with mind turns out to be the best 'mind training'.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:15 pm
by muni
Tenma, I share your observation what you say about limited in time. You make it clear; to be free from the afflictions is not enough, afflictions are like the branches of a tree and by certain causes and conditions branches grow back, sometimes harder and stronger than ever before. Therefore we have to uproot the tree or the belief in ourself.

The focus on "our self" creates hatred for what/who we do not like, allows anger, arrogance, attachment, jealousy...
Focus on others, their welfare is much and much more important for own practice. Be happy for others without discrimination, rejoice for others, care for them as they were all beloved parents or beloved children. These release the narrow stubborn focus of the experience-feeling of self.

The four boundless ones are good support. https://www.padmasambhava.org/sermon/four-immesurables/

Ps It is such a great thing to even just recognize that stubborn mind, it allows the genuine wish to be free, allows practice to open the door out of self centeredness. :namaste:

All the best, Tenma.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:19 pm
by Miroku
Lojong. Try 8 lojong slogans (Pema Chödron is supposed to be really good with them, or HH Dalailama), or 37 practices of Bodhisattvas that is my preffered lojong of choice.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:49 pm
by Grigoris
Tenma wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:41 pm
When one's mind is very hard and intense with materialism, mundanity, hatred, and so forth, and certain practices against this are only limited within a time, how else can one train the mind into concentration and so forth? I'm afraid the misuse of antidotes may have become useless against the poison now.
I find it EXTRAORDINARILY difficult to believe that you have exhausted the capacity of the particular practices in dealing with your issue.

The practices are not useless, you are not applying them properly and to their full extent.

You have not been doing them long enough for them to be effective.

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:16 pm
by Tenma
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:49 pm
Tenma wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:41 pm
When one's mind is very hard and intense with materialism, mundanity, hatred, and so forth, and certain practices against this are only limited within a time, how else can one train the mind into concentration and so forth? I'm afraid the misuse of antidotes may have become useless against the poison now.
I find it EXTRAORDINARILY difficult to believe that you have exhausted the capacity of the particular practices in dealing with your issue.

The practices are not useless, you are not applying them properly and to their full extent.

You have not been doing them long enough for them to be effective.
How do you apply it properly then and to their fullest extent? What is the "extent" then for time?

Re: How to Train the Stubborn Mind?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:31 pm
by Grigoris
Tenma wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:16 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:49 pm
Tenma wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:41 pm
When one's mind is very hard and intense with materialism, mundanity, hatred, and so forth, and certain practices against this are only limited within a time, how else can one train the mind into concentration and so forth? I'm afraid the misuse of antidotes may have become useless against the poison now.
I find it EXTRAORDINARILY difficult to believe that you have exhausted the capacity of the particular practices in dealing with your issue.

The practices are not useless, you are not applying them properly and to their full extent.

You have not been doing them long enough for them to be effective.
How do you apply it properly then and to their fullest extent? What is the "extent" then for time?
You keep doing the practice until the result manifests.