What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:20 pm

Rick wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:29 pm
What does the bolded part mean ... I never heard 'potential' used in this context before.
It means that I consider Buddha Nature to be the inherent potential, of every sentient being, to achieve Buddhahood.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:36 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:According to Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamsto in his Stages of Meditation on Emptiness (which is, BTW a brilliant book that covers some of this same ground), all the philosophical positions taken within Buddhism (Shentong Madhyamika being at the "top" in his presentation) are praxis, intended to be used as guidelines for the practitioners experience, moreso than believed as definitive statements. So they are not standalone philosophical positions.
I’m reading Sallie B. King’s book Buddha Nature, which deals with many of these same questions. The term she uses is that the concern of these teachings is ‘soteriological’, meaning ‘concerned with or oriented towards enlightenment’. So the practice of meditation on Buddha Nature likewise doesn’t posit some thing called ‘Buddha Nature’ but instead comprises an insight into the interdependence of everything. It is seeing into that interdependence, which is the realisation of emptiness, which is the point; the capacity to understand that is Buddha Nature, but it’s not as if there is a separate, permanently-existing entity called ‘Buddha Nature’.

So any ‘philosophical positions’ are again like a raft or temporary device used for a specific purpose, namely, to awaken the aspirant, rather than being or containing some absolute and unchanging truth. (Why does the phrase ‘burn after readinng’ keep coming to mind :smile: )
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by smcj » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:42 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:20 pm
Rick wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:29 pm
What does the bolded part mean ... I never heard 'potential' used in this context before.
It means that I consider Buddha Nature to be the inherent potential, of every sentient being, to achieve Buddhahood.
Do you mean a potential for something to happen, like wood has the potential to catch fire?
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post/by ?)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that,
Through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Rick » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:18 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:20 pm
Rick wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:29 pm
What does the bolded part mean ... I never heard 'potential' used in this context before.
It means that I consider Buddha Nature to be the inherent potential, of every sentient being, to achieve Buddhahood.
Gotcha.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Rick » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:53 am

Matt J wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:16 pm
I don't think you will necessarily get from Buddhism to Vedanta. What makes Buddhism different from all other religions in the world is the emphasis on a deep and thoroughgoing emptiness. / I wanted to share this passage from Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche ...
Thanks, Matt. But didn't the Papa of Shentong Dölpopa teach a 'great self' that was very similar to atman? And afaik the Jonang teach other-emptiness but not self-emptiness, which sounds like Vedanta, if you replace emptiness with mithya (mistaking appearances for reality).
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by smcj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:18 am

Rick wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:53 am
Matt J wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:16 pm
I don't think you will necessarily get from Buddhism to Vedanta. What makes Buddhism different from all other religions in the world is the emphasis on a deep and thoroughgoing emptiness. / I wanted to share this passage from Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche ...
Thanks, Matt. But didn't the Papa of Shentong Dölpopa teach a 'great self' that was very similar to atman? And afaik the Jonang teach other-emptiness but not self-emptiness, which sounds like Vedanta, if you replace emptiness with mithya (mistaking appearances for reality).
There’s a bunch of different ways to spin Shentong. Some are pretty outrageous. Karmapa VIII said that since Buddha Nature was empty of impurities that meant that sentient beings, being defiled, were exactly what Buddha Nature isn’t. Therefore you couldn’t say sentient beings either had or were Buddha Nature.

That’s 180 degrees away from the original idea behind Buddha Nature. Pretty weird.
(Found in “When Clouds Part” by Brunnholzl.)

Anyway the point is there’s a gamut of possible interpretations. Guy Newland reports HHDL says there good Shentong and bad Shentong. That he accepts any Shentong at all is pretty open minded for a Gelupa. I suspect the Jonang version is one he doesn’t like.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post/by ?)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that,
Through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:43 am

Rick wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:53 am
Matt J wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:16 pm
I don't think you will necessarily get from Buddhism to Vedanta. What makes Buddhism different from all other religions in the world is the emphasis on a deep and thoroughgoing emptiness. / I wanted to share this passage from Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche ...
Thanks, Matt. But didn't the Papa of Shentong Dölpopa teach a 'great self' that was very similar to atman? And afaik the Jonang teach other-emptiness but not self-emptiness, which sounds like Vedanta, if you replace emptiness with mithya (mistaking appearances for reality).
No, it is different from atman-style monism. Seriously, read the book, KTG gives a very good plain language explanation.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by smcj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:16 am

No, it is different from atman-style monism. Seriously, read the book, KTG gives a very good plain language explanation.
Well maybe, and maybe not.
Malcolm wrote:I’ll once forced Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso to admit (I have a witness, incidentally) that there was no substantial difference between Advaita Vedanta and Gzhan stong in terms of how they presented their view. His only response was a sectarian polemic "But there is no buddhahood in Vedanta!"
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8318&p=102251&hili ... eg#p102251


It’s a really really hot potato.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post/by ?)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that,
Through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:01 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:16 am
No, it is different from atman-style monism. Seriously, read the book, KTG gives a very good plain language explanation.
Well maybe, and maybe not.
Malcolm wrote:I’ll once forced Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso to admit (I have a witness, incidentally) that there was no substantial difference between Advaita Vedanta and Gzhan stong in terms of how they presented their view. His only response was a sectarian polemic "But there is no buddhahood in Vedanta!"
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8318&p=102251&hili ... eg#p102251


It’s a really really hot potato.
In Shentong while Buddha nature is seen as not being empty of itself, I have not seen many presentations that spend a lot of time talking about how it s a "whole" a "one" etc. You can find the language of "oneness" etc. in Zen and other places, but seems contextually and qualitatively different than what I know of Advaita. Granted, I have only read a few modern teachers and a couple of Advaita texts, but their method of negating conventional reality while affirming the reality of Brahman seems to me to go much farther than Shentong, and frankly to be kind of clumsy in comparison to Buddhist sources.

Are there similarities, sure. Are they the same? Personally I don't think so.

I'd again mention that such ideas are not meant to stand alone. When you practice meditation in a tradition that emphasizes experiencing The One Thing, and sufficiently reifies it, then your meditation experience will simply have very different parameters than a tradition which de-emphasizes fixation on meditative experiences altogether. Lots of version of Buddhadharma that adhere to Shentong do the latter, because it is built into the practices themselves and the meditative tradition. So even if philosophical claims appear to be similar in places, they appear to function differently.

My understanding of Advaita (mainly from the Ashtavakra Gita) is that contemplation of the unreality of the world has a bit of a different function than in Buddhism. In Buddhism you are not doing this in order to find the Real Thing (tm) in the manner of Advaita.

That is again, my limited understanding/take on Advaita, but I think the differences seem considerable, regardless of whether or not you can make the philosophy look very much similar on paper, which it surely can.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by smcj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:17 am

In Shentong while Buddha nature is seen as not being empty of itself, I have not seen many presentations that spend a lot of time talking about how it s a "whole" a "one" etc. You can find the language of "oneness" etc. in Zen and other places, but seems contextually and qualitatively different than what I know of Advaita. Granted, I have only read a few modern teachers and a couple of Advaita texts, but their method of negating conventional reality while affirming the reality of Brahman seems to me to go much farther than Shentong, and frankly to be kind of clumsy in comparison to Buddhist sources.

Are there similarities, sure. Are they the same? Personally I don't think so.

I'd again mention that such ideas are not meant to stand alone. When you practice meditation in a tradition that emphasizes experiencing The One Thing, and sufficiently reifies it, then your meditation experience will simply have very different parameters than a tradition which de-emphasizes fixation on meditative experiences altogether. Lots of version of Buddhadharma that adhere to Shentong do the latter, because it is built into the practices themselves and the meditative tradition. So even if philosophical claims appear to be similar in places, they appear to function differently.

My understanding of Advaita (mainly from the Ashtavakra Gita) is that contemplation of the unreality of the world has a bit of a different function than in Buddhism. In Buddhism you are not doing this in order to find the Real Thing (tm) in the manner of Advaita.

That is again, my limited understanding/take on Advaita, but I think the differences seem considerable, regardless of whether or not you can make the philosophy look very much similar on paper, which it surely can.
Nicely done.
:good:
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post/by ?)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that,
Through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by haha » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:14 am

It is interesting to know what exactly the Reborn is.
Jain believes Jiva (self or soul) goes from one life to another.
Advaita Vedanta believes Susma sarira that goes to one life to another; probably same to Samkhya philosophy.
Different groups give different approach.
Buddhism in general gives solution to overcome Bhava, Jāti, and Jarāmaraṇa. But Vajrayana gives better picture on this matter.

Shentong view is not even remotely similar to Advaita Vadanta; this is just the accusation by some schools to suppress its view.
I remembered listening to lectures on Mandukya Karika. On that lecture, the presenter has distinguished that they would agree with nagarjuna’s view on which point, and they would refute his view on which point. Using Nagarjuna’s dedicatory verses, they have even refuted by explaining “prapancopasamam sivam” could not be the view of Advaita Vedanta. Understanding others' view is good for our own understanding. (sorry if I have not express myself well.)
:oops:

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:14 pm

smcj wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:42 pm
Do you mean a potential for something to happen, like wood has the potential to catch fire?
I mean that I believe that, as a consequence of their very sentience, every being has the capacity to achieve Buddhahood.

I have no idea where that places me in the whole Shentong-Rangtong debate and I don't particularly care either. :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by smcj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:05 pm

Grigoris wrote: I have no idea where that places me in the whole Shentong-Rangtong debate and I don't particularly care either. :smile:
The only reason it is important is because of the implications.

If you have a Rongtong view basically you’re relying on your own efforts. If you have a Shentong view, and thus an open mind to some sort of higher power, your efforts are supplemented by the accessing of something beyond your current awareness.

In the current post-religigiosity environment that difference is a very big deal.
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post/by ?)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that,
Through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Matt J » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:30 pm

There's a fundamental problem with Dolpopa, Taranatha, Buddha, and many other great masters and Buddhas of the past--- they're gone. We can't ask them questions. Accordingly, what they actually thought in some regards is unreachable (unless you get some sort of yogic transmission or mainline into the sambhogakaya). This is why the emphasis on a living teacher and a sangha. They can experientially point these things out and provide practices so that what we read makes sense in a very real and direct way. And you can ask questions, resolve doubts, and practice, practice, practice.

I think this is an interesting conversation that may be better suited to another forum (especially where each post does not have to be approved). I will speculate a little on the differences between the traditions. Indic religions are different from nearly ever other major religion in history because they emphasize experience and training the mind through meditation. Vedanta, however, also inherited the Vedas. Shankarcharya was born into a Vedic household with Vedic teachers. Accordingly, he had to justify everything within the context of the Vedas. The Buddha inherited no tradition. He was free to teach from his direct experience. So even if the traditions are pointing in the same direction (which I neither affirm nor deny), the language and methods are quite different.
Rick wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:53 am
Matt J wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:16 pm
I don't think you will necessarily get from Buddhism to Vedanta. What makes Buddhism different from all other religions in the world is the emphasis on a deep and thoroughgoing emptiness. / I wanted to share this passage from Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche ...
Thanks, Matt. But didn't the Papa of Shentong Dölpopa teach a 'great self' that was very similar to atman? And afaik the Jonang teach other-emptiness but not self-emptiness, which sounds like Vedanta, if you replace emptiness with mithya (mistaking appearances for reality).
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:10 pm

smcj wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:05 pm
Grigoris wrote: I have no idea where that places me in the whole Shentong-Rangtong debate and I don't particularly care either. :smile:
The only reason it is important is because of the implications.

If you have a Rongtong view basically you’re relying on your own efforts. If you have a Shentong view, and thus an open mind to some sort of higher power, your efforts are supplemented by the accessing of something beyond your current awareness.

In the current post-religigiosity environment that difference is a very big deal.
Not sure this is a valid impression of madhyamaka. Not making affirmative claims about something is not the same as making negative claims about it.

Shentong is also not "other power" in the manner of the Pureland schools, nor are schools which do not follow Shentong any less "religious".

It sounds like you are talking from the Big Book instead of Buddhism, it has it's own merits for sure, but not a good comparison IMO, particularly when your "higher power" can never be separate from your own being, which is the case in nearly any version of Mahayana.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by clyde » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:20 pm
Have a read of Ven. Thanisarro's online article, The Truth of Rebirth and Why it Matters for Buddhist Practice. It's a deep article, take it slowly, and if you have questions on it, by all means ask them here.
Ven. Thanisarro quotes a sutta:
"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two... five, ten... fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details.
"This was the first knowledge I attained in the first watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose — as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute.”

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The Sutta says the Buddha remembered details of his past lives, his names, his appearances, his births and his deaths, his preferences, etc. And he did this on the first watch of the night which is 3 hours (from 6 pm to 9 pm) which equals 10,800 seconds. And he did this recollecting for hundreds of thousands of lives.

So, maybe that’s not an accurate telling. Maybe the suttas and sutras and all the teachings are upaya, skillful methods. And skillful actions is something the Ven. Thanisarro emphasizes though he doesn’t make the point I’m making.
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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Wayfarer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:00 am

Clyde wrote:Maybe that’s not an accurate telling...
Or, maybe it is, but not when judged from the ordinary perspective.

Buddha is said to have super-normal powers. Perhaps being able to comprehend hundreds of thousands of lives in a moment is among them.

Even ordinary people report after near-death episodes that they saw their entire life in their mind’s eye in a single moment. Yet normally we can do no such thing.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 am

clyde wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32 am
Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:20 pm
Have a read of Ven. Thanisarro's online article, The Truth of Rebirth and Why it Matters for Buddhist Practice. It's a deep article, take it slowly, and if you have questions on it, by all means ask them here.
Ven. Thanisarro quotes a sutta:
"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two... five, ten... fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details.
"This was the first knowledge I attained in the first watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose — as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute.”

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The Sutta says the Buddha remembered details of his past lives, his names, his appearances, his births and his deaths, his preferences, etc. And he did this on the first watch of the night which is 3 hours (from 6 pm to 9 pm) which equals 10,800 seconds. And he did this recollecting for hundreds of thousands of lives.

So, maybe that’s not an accurate telling. Maybe the suttas and sutras and all the teachings are upaya, skillful methods. And skillful actions is something the Ven. Thanisarro emphasizes though he doesn’t make the point I’m making.
Ven. Thanisarro AFAIK definitely subscribes to actual rebirth, and does not consider rebirth some kind of upaya - that is a modernist notion from people who are uncomfortable with the idea, for their own reasons..and is hardly ever found in traditional Buddhist discourse.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:25 am

What happened to the baby your parents had, who gave it your name?
Every cell in that baby's body died a long time ago.
Every thought in that baby's mind is long gone.
Yet, somehow, here you are.
Well, you were...a second ago.
What that rebirth?
Most of the answers are better than this one.

Nothing arises that can be identified as a self.
The experience of a self has no true existence, yet it occurs.
Obviously, this doesn't depend on a permanent body or thought.
Each second gives birth to the next, like an endless string of falling dominoes.

Relatively, Relative truth, we can say a person takes rebirth, or a lama reincarnates, whatever.
Ultimately, in ultimate truth, nothing can me identified as a self-entity that is either being born, living, dying, or being dead.

So, that's part of the confusion. It's like saying the year has four seasons, or there is day and night.
From the relative viewpoint of a season, it starts and it stops, it is born and it dies.
But from the ultimate view of the year, it just sees four aspects of itself occurring over 365 days.

Relatively, in relative truth, we can say that now it is day, now it is night, Sun up or Sun down, because that is our limited point of view.
But ultimately, in ultimate truth, night is just a continuously passing shadow on one side of the surface of a constantly spinning Earth.

So, how we see life and death is relative truth, like that.
Ultimately, nobody is going anywhere.
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Re: What Exactly is 'Reborn'?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:24 am

Quick reminder:

This forum is specifically about "discovering Mahayana Buddhism", and is not really the place for larger scale debates about rebirth etc. The place for those is Open Dharma, they have a limited place here anyway, and don't have a good track record.

This thread is about what is reborn according to various views within Mahayana Buddhism, and again not particularly a place for refuting this or that Buddhist concept. outside the context of the basic question.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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