Buddha does not recommend recitation

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nothingkungfu
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Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by nothingkungfu » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:09 pm

I came across a video from YouTube that mentioning that Buddha discourage of reading any mantra or recitation.

Best practice only by doing the good deeds and meditation

I understand that one of most famous Sutra taught by Buddha most of the time which is Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra . This Sutra mentions below according to wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longer_Su ... S%C5%ABtra

" The sutra also contains the forty-eight vows of Amitābha to save all sentient beings. The eighteenth vow is among the most important as it forms a basic tenet of Pure Land Buddhism. This vow states that if a sentient being makes even ten recitations of the Amitābha's name (nianfo) they will attain certain rebirth into Amitābha's pure land. "

I have questions here.

1) When is exactly the creation of this Sutra ? Does Buddha really taught this Sutra before?
2) Does Buddha really discourage of reading mantra ? Hopefully there is any convincing source for the answer
3) Does what the youtuber written below is correct especially the statement below?
Wu Liang Shiu Jing and 念佛門are all “new inventions”. There are not “original Buddhism”


===============the youtuber and also a Buddha's student comment on this about Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra ===========
Buddha did not teach that. You need to read the history of Buddhism. After Buddha’s death, his disciples gathered and wrote down what they remembered regarding Buddha’s teaching. This is called the first gathering. All the writings from the time are accurate.

This was done within 100 years from Buddha’s death.

After another 300 years, people started to fight and those who disagree with the “old school” decided to summon a “second gathering”.

Sutras and writings created at this time are inaccurate. Most if not all are fake. They are not Buddha’s original words. This is simply too long time from the death of Buddha. It is unbelievable that there is someone who can “remember” who Buddha said 400 years ago.

Wu Liang Shiu Jing and 念佛門are all “new inventions”. There are not “original Buddhism”

You need to go back to the “original”

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Bristollad » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:48 pm

Most Theravadins believe that even the Pali suttas were transmitted only orally until around 500 years after the Buddha died. The opinion given that,

"All the writings from the time [of the First Council] are accurate. This was done within 100 years from Buddha’s death."

is not accepted as accurate by either Theravadan traditional accounts nor by modern scholars (i.e. that the Three Baskets were written down within a hundred years of the Buddha's death).

Sutras and writings created at this time are inaccurate. Most if not all are fake. They are not Buddha’s original words. This is simply too long time from the death of Buddha. It is unbelievable that there is someone who can “remember” who Buddha said 400 years ago.

This opinion also undermines the validity of the Pali Suttas, Vinaya and Abhidhamma since "The Tipitaka that was transmitted to Sri Lanka during the reign of King Asoka were initially preserved orally and were later written down during the Fourth Buddhist Council in 29 BCE, approximately 454 years after the death of Gautama Buddha." see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li_Canon

The oldest physical examples we have of Pali texts are no more than 1600 years old, not the 2500 years old they would have to be to date back to the First Council.

see https://iias.asia/iiasn/25/theme/25T6.html
The oldest surviving Buddhist texts (Theravada/Hinayana) in the Pali language come from the relic chamber of a Buddhist stupa at Sri Ksetra. They consist of a twenty-leaf manuscript of solid gold and a large gilded reliquary of silver (Fig. 2). A new and exhaustive palaeographic study of these inscriptions shows that they date from the mid-fifth to mid-sixth century AD

and https://www.academia.edu/6508616/Pali_M ... _Sri_Lanka p.367
The four oldest known Sinhalese Pali manuscripts date from the Dambadeniya kingdom period and are described in some detail by P. E. E. Fernando (1982). The oldest manuscript, the Cullavagga in the possession of the library of the Colombo National Museum, dates from the reign of King Parakramabahu II (1236-1237).

The oldest physical Buddhist texts that have been found date back to the 1st century CE and are in Ghandaran rather than Pali, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandh%C4% ... hist_texts

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Buddhist_Texts for an overview of the field of early Buddhist texts.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:50 pm

It's simply not true that sutras were written down 100 years after the Buddha's death. Nothing was written down at the first council, as far as I know. Everything was written down hundreds of years later. So according to the YouTubers own logic, he is following fake teachings.

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:05 am

Theravada didn't even exist when Mahayana was born. It's all a myth. Now that the facts are being discovered Theravadans are now wanting to rebrand themselves as "Earliest Buddhism" - again, it's creative mythology, but not factual. As far as I'm concerned, everything is "Canonical" but not everything is absolutely true.
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Grigoris
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Grigoris » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 am

Theravada, as we currently know it, is a 19th century reformation in response to Western colonialism.

Originally Theravada developed out of the Vibhajjavāda division of the Sthāvirīya. And the Sthāvirīya did not come into existence until after the second council anyway. Theravada came out of the third council. So Theravada, even at it's inception, was already three times removed from "original" Buddhism.

The Sri Lankan Theravada movement, that put together the Pali Canon, apparently came out later from the Tambapaṇṇiya (later Mahāvihāravāsins) division of the Sthāvirīya.

So much for original Buddhism... :roll:

All this from a 3.7msec Google search.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:53 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 am
Theravada, as we currently know it, is a 19th century reformation in response to Western colonialism.

Originally Theravada developed out of the Vibhajjavāda division of the Sthāvirīya. And the Sthāvirīya did not come into existence until after the second council anyway. Theravada came out of the third council. So Theravada, even at it's inception, was already three times removed from "original" Buddhism.

The Sri Lankan Theravada movement, that put together the Pali Canon, apparently came out later from the Tambapaṇṇiya (later Mahāvihāravāsins) division of the Sthāvirīya.

So much for original Buddhism... :roll:

All this from a 3.7msec Google search.
Aha! Thanks...
Actually I place a great deal of value in many of those suttas, and i only want to emphasize that the Suttas are not anybody's private playground. Just to be clear about that.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by 如傑優婆塞 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:11 am

I came across a video from YouTube that mentioning that Buddha discourage of reading any mantra or recitation.
Is it possible to have the link please?
Best practice only by doing the good deeds and meditation
Okay, as per who and where? What the Buddha have taught & are found various Buddhist Canons is known as the Triśikṣā or 'Threefold Training' in Śīla, Samādhi & Prajñā (Ch: 戒、定、慧). which are corresponding with the Noble Eightfold Path in three sections or partitions.
1) When is exactly the creation of this Sutra ? Does Buddha really taught this Sutra before?
The first part is already answered in the very Wiki link you gave and they reference the works from scholars like Nakamura & Wiliiams.
The second part deals with a perspective of how is 'Buddha' defined and who gets to decide? For this, one may have to look across the spectrum of Buddhist legacies: For example, in 天台宗, the classification of what's 'buddhavacana' is a fivefold one sourced from: the Buddha himself, His Disciples, devatās, ṛṣis & transformation beings like nirmāṇakāyas of Buddhas or avatāras of devatās. The standard governing their speech is that it should conform with the Buddha Dharma or in some cases, in the presence of the Buddha, with his acquiescence and may be checked with sources like the Buddha, the Saṃgha, a group of Elders down to a single Elder as seen in the Pāḷi Nikāya's Mahāparinibbāṇa Sutta. This proposed scheme has roots even in ancient sects like the Mahāsāṃghika, Mūlasarvāstivāda and so forth as what scholars opine like Donald Lopez, Andrew Skilton et al.
Notice on how the very scheme of Buddhists texts from various Canons and Traditions contain parts of the fivefold classification as compared to certain vested interests who have selective claims and agendas about the Buddhist textual tradition, oft playing the game of 'only this is true and everything else is worthless', as eschewed in the Suttas. And blind adherence to Sacred Writ was undesirable as demonstrated by the committees that compile the Tripiṭaka(s), where due process also involves distilling genuine texts from apocryphal ones, a monumental task. In short, the Buddhist textual tradition across various spectrum, in my opinion, is a delicate & mammoth endeavor and not easily reducible to populist slogans of interest groups, if one wants to be taken seriously.
2) Does Buddha really discourage of reading mantra ? Hopefully there is any convincing source for the answer
In the first part, one answer to this, again is pivoted on the previous query with its given answer on Buddhavacana and the topic on mantra is a huge one, depending on the source of commentary. For example in 真言宗, the term 'mantra' is translated as '真言' or 'True Word' Why 'True Word'? In the 大日經疏, 'The Chinese word zhēnyán (lit. true words') is the translation of the Sanskrit word mantra. Mantras are words of truth, words of Suchness, and speech not erroneous and not false'. Mantras were generally not translated into Chinese because their effectiveness is supramundane, and not tied to any ordinary linguistic meanings. Also, according to Kūkai, mantras and dhāraṇīs for Esoteric practice have infinite meanings beyond the mundane linguistic sense because their composite letters each have infinite meanings. The mantra of a deity is directly is directly the samādhi or inner realization of that deity, and that deity's mystery of speech. The mantra teachings of Shingon Buddhism are specifically for the relief of suffering and attainment of liberation. Buddhist mantras reveal the unchanging truth of the Dharmakāya and its preaching, and are Suchness themselves. The Mahāvairocanābhisaṃbodhi Sūtra says, ... The Buddhas do not create the characteristics of mantras, nor do they cause others to create them... Whether or not a Buddha appears in the world, all dharmas abide in Suchness. Therefore, all mantras are mantras of Suchness.
Appendix VII: Glossary: Mantra (page 376)
Now, compare it with this:
"Whatever treasure there be either here or in the world beyond, whatever precious jewel there be in the heavenly worlds, there is nought comparable to the Tathagata (the perfect One). This precious jewel is the Buddha. By this (asseveration of the) truth may there be happiness.".
In the second part, it's my belief that conviction is ultimately in the hands of oneself. What and how others points one in any particular direction, are mere details and not in their interest to enforce anything on anyone.
3) Does what the youtuber written below is correct especially the statement below?
Wu Liang Shiu Jing and 念佛門are all “new inventions”. There are not “original Buddhism”
Again, the first part on the text is already dealt with earlier. The second part on 念佛門 and the alleged 'new invention' is actually untrue as Buddhānusmṛti practice is found in all Buddhist traditions and part of the scheme in the practice of Anusmriti with only differing methods and emphasis placed by different schools. Consider this when the scholar Willemen elucidates on practices from Mahāsāṃghika & Sarvāstivāda on the topic. See comparative texts below:
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

I also say unto you O monks — if any fear, terror or hair standing on end should arise in you when you have gone to the forest or to the foot of a tree, or to an empty house (lonely place), then think only of me thus: "'Such Indeed is the Blessed One, Arahant (Consummate One), Supremely Enlightened, Endowed with Knowledge and Virtue, Welcome Being, Knower of Worlds, The Peerless Trainer of Persons, Teacher of Gods and Men, the Buddha, the Blessed One.' Monks, if you think of me, any fear, terror, or standing of hair on end, that may arise in you, will pass away.

The Buddha told Ānanda and Vaidehī, “After achieving this vision, one should next visualize that Buddha. Why? A Buddha-Tathāgata’s body is the dharma realm, which pervades the thinking mind of all sentient beings. Therefore, when one visualizes a Buddha, one’s mind has a Buddha’s thirty-two physical marks and eighty excellent characteristics. The mind forms a Buddha, and the mind is the Buddha. The ocean of Saṁbuddhas is formed by one’s thinking mind. Therefore, one should single-mindedly focus on and visualize that Buddha, the Tathāgata, Arhat, Samyak-Saṁbuddha.
===============the youtuber and also a Buddha's student comment on this about Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra ===========
Buddha did not teach that. You need to read the history of Buddhism. After Buddha’s death, his disciples gathered and wrote down what they remembered regarding Buddha’s teaching. This is called the first gathering. All the writings from the time are accurate.
As others have already given excellent links, I will only ask back the same question: Whose version / narrative of Buddhist history is one interested in? Sectarian hagiography of history? Evidence based history by non-sectarian scholars and experts? Choose wisely...
After another 300 years, people started to fight and those who disagree with the “old school” decided to summon a “second gathering”.
Is this about the Second Buddhist Council? By the way, it was approximately around 383 BCE and the First Council was around 400 BCE...
Sutras and writings created at this time are inaccurate. Most if not all are fake. They are not Buddha’s original words. This is simply too long time from the death of Buddha. It is unbelievable that there is someone who can “remember” who Buddha said 400 years ago.
Such people have existed since time immemorial in Buddhist history even way into the post modern age across Buddhist traditions. And then, we have the written tradition. Again, my question remains: who gets to define 'fake'?
There are not “original Buddhism”. You need to go back to the “original”
Again, who gets to define and decide on 'original'? Even the term 'Early Buddhism' in Buddhist studies is oft with reference to the Indian sectarian period where 18-20 Schools existed, which includes the Theravāda or known back then by other names.

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SonamTashi
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by SonamTashi » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:10 am

As others have said, that Youtuber is wrong.

A lot of what they're saying is based on nothing more than Theravadan polemics and bad history-- but even for the most sectarian Theravadan this is all pretty blatantly wrong. Buddha does not recommend recitation? That isn't even true of Theravada itself. Wikipedia isn't the best source, but the information here is very easily found in the Pali canon. It says here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddh%C4% ... E1%B9%9Bti

In all Theravada countries chanting, devotion (bhatti) and worship (puja) is a big part of lay and monastic Buddhist practice, and devotional chants which praise the qualities of the Buddha are widely used.
In addition, as others have said, the method of Pure Land Buddhism mentioned in the Sukhavativyuha Sutra is simply a form of Buddha mindfulness. Buddha mindfulness is a practice that is common to pretty much every Buddhist school, including Theravada:

In the Pali Nikayas' mention of the ten recollections, Buddhānussaṭi is defined thus:

One thing — when developed & pursued — leads solely to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. Which one thing? Recollection of the Buddha. This is one thing that — when developed & pursued — leads solely to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding
The most widely used meditation text in Theravada Buddhism, the Visuddhimagga uses the following 'Buddhānussaṭi Gatha' for contemplation of the Buddha's nine qualities (Nava Guna):

Iti’ pi so bhagava araham sammasambuddho vijjacaranasampanno sugato lokavidu anuttaro purisadammasarathi sattha devamanussanam buddho bhagava’ti.

"Thus indeed is the Exalted One (1) an accomplished one, (2) a fully-enlightened one, (3) endowed with knowledge and good conduct, (4) well gone or gone to bliss, (5) a knower of the world, (6) an unsurpassed leader of persons to be tamed, (7) a teacher of humans and devas, (8) the awakened or the one who knows, (9) the sublime or exalted."

To be quite frank, the Youtuber in question is almost startlingly ignorant, even of their own tradition, and needs to take their own advice about studying Buddhist history-- something they clearly haven't done enough of. Also, it is good to keep in mind that random Youtube channels are not a good source of information much of the time.
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Grigoris » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:48 am

SonamTashi wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:10 am

In all Theravada countries chanting, devotion (bhatti) and worship (puja) is a big part of lay and monastic Buddhist practice, and devotional chants which praise the qualities of the Buddha are widely used.
Indeed they are!!! When I was in Bangkok for Vesak Day it was a never-ending non-stop festival of chanting and offerings!

My favorite Theravada protective chant:



The lyrics and their meaning can be found here: http://chanting-book-for-buddha.blogspo ... -cage.html
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Queequeg » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:34 pm

nothingkungfu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:09 pm
You need to go back to the “original”
Beware anyone claiming they are going back to the "Original."
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by nothingkungfu » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 am

Many thanks for the replies and the rest of the user too.

Well the message that the youtuber mentioned above 'i think' it meant to be for those Buddhist shall not to be too supertitous

I have many friend just know how to read mantra but do not know the content of it neither they r practicing the content so effect likely not much.

Like the statement below, not to criticise but I just don't understand also how it can be so easy to get out of this samsara.

Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra
" The sutra also contains the forty-eight vows of Amitābha to save all sentient beings. The eighteenth vow is among the most important as it forms a basic tenet of Pure Land Buddhism. This vow states that if a sentient being makes even ten recitations of the Amitābha's name (nianfo) they will attain certain rebirth into Amitābha's pure land. "

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by pemachophel » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:38 pm

In many, many Mahayana sutras, Lord Buddha specifically tells the listeners (and by extension anyone else who comes across these sutras) to recite that sutra, that dharani, or that mantra. Often Lord Buddha gives a specific number of recitations or says to recite a certain sutra once per day. To say that Lord Buddha said not to recite sutras, dharanis, or mantras is simply, in terms of Mahayana sutras, wrong.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Grigoris » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:51 pm

nothingkungfu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 am
Many thanks for the replies and the rest of the user too.

Well the message that the youtuber mentioned above 'i think' it meant to be for those Buddhist shall not to be too supertitous

I have many friend just know how to read mantra but do not know the content of it neither they r practicing the content so effect likely not much.

Like the statement below, not to criticise but I just don't understand also how it can be so easy to get out of this samsara.

Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra
" The sutra also contains the forty-eight vows of Amitābha to save all sentient beings. The eighteenth vow is among the most important as it forms a basic tenet of Pure Land Buddhism. This vow states that if a sentient being makes even ten recitations of the Amitābha's name (nianfo) they will attain certain rebirth into Amitābha's pure land. "
Which tradition of Buddhism do you practice?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:08 pm

I think, all of this is meaningless.
Who was the first person to produce fire by friction, using wood, flint, etc?
Nobody knows.
Yet, if you use a modern cigarette lighter to produce a flame,
is this kind of fire not really valid? Is it fake fire?
If you hold paper to it, will the paper fail to burn, simply because the fire wasn't produced
by rubbing two sticks together?

Buddha stressed the importance of putting the teaching to the test,
like testing to see if something is really gold or not.

It is up to the person who tests out their method of practice,
whether reciting mantras, or the name of Amitabha, or following vinaya precepts, or pondering koans or whatever,
to determine whether it is transforming their karmic behaviors.

It's up to each person to decide whether or not the one they regard as a valid teacher,
as well as well-known masters throughout history
attained realization or not, and can pass on that realization.

Validating the history of the development and spread of Buddhism is important
but there is no way of knowing if what has been recorded includes everything taught by the Buddha.
Mantra recitation existed in India at that time.
Did the Buddha engage in discourses with, and gave many teachings to sadhus, yogins, and various tantric practitioners,
giving them teachings in accordance with their understanding? Who knows?
I would be very surprised if he didn't.
Mantra is, literally, mind-focusing.
Simply focusing the mind on an object isn't enough to result in full awakening,
But it could be a useful tool for some, and apparently, it is.
.
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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by nothingkungfu » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:51 pm
nothingkungfu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 am
Many thanks for the replies and the rest of the user too.

Well the message that the youtuber mentioned above 'i think' it meant to be for those Buddhist shall not to be too supertitous

I have many friend just know how to read mantra but do not know the content of it neither they r practicing the content so effect likely not much.

Like the statement below, not to criticise but I just don't understand also how it can be so easy to get out of this samsara.

Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra
" The sutra also contains the forty-eight vows of Amitābha to save all sentient beings. The eighteenth vow is among the most important as it forms a basic tenet of Pure Land Buddhism. This vow states that if a sentient being makes even ten recitations of the Amitābha's name (nianfo) they will attain certain rebirth into Amitābha's pure land. "
Which tradition of Buddhism do you practice?
I am practicing the below which are Mahayana

Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra => for this I just recite Amitabha when I jogging.

Below are the Sutra and Mantra that I am practicing most
Kṣitigarbha Bodhisattva Pūrvapraṇidhāna Sūtra
Mahā Karuṇā Dhāranī

Most of the time I pick and focus the basic practicing way like taking Vege, patience and false speech. I am listening to some monk's story telling too

I am writing down a diary for daily improvement and sometime ask for people feedback. This is how I track myself for improvement .

For Mantra, I am not actually doing recitation but study the content, finding the meaning of it and try to practice if applicable . Sometime I do post something I don't understand in this forum.

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Grigoris » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:30 pm

nothingkungfu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 pm
Like the statement below, not to criticise but I just don't understand also how it can be so easy to get out of this samsara.

Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra
" The sutra also contains the forty-eight vows of Amitābha to save all sentient beings. The eighteenth vow is among the most important as it forms a basic tenet of Pure Land Buddhism. This vow states that if a sentient being makes even ten recitations of the Amitābha's name (nianfo) they will attain certain rebirth into Amitābha's pure land. "
I would recommend you ask this question in the Pure Land sub-forum viewforum.php?f=60 that is the "speciality" of that particular Buddhist tradition.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:43 pm

how it can be so easy to get out of this samsara.
Explanation on Points of Doubt.
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Tolya M » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:47 pm

Another madman with binary thinking spreads slander on Vaipulya scriptures... It does not matter when and who said that 2 + 2 = 4. Buddhadharma is not dogmatic. It is important that it is said well, leads to knowing, to understanding, to the end of mistakes and well-being :shrug:

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:27 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:34 pm
nothingkungfu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:09 pm
You need to go back to the “original”
Beware anyone claiming they are going back to the "Original."
I don't hear many people talk about 'original', but there is a consensus on what is 'early'

FiveSkandhas
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Buddha does not recommend recitation

Post by FiveSkandhas » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:57 pm

Beware the “fundamentalist fallacy”: the idea that if it is “earlier” or closer to the direct teaching of th historical Buddha, it is more valid.

Buddhism teaches “expedient means” and different teachings to people in different situations. It has always been an evolving religion with new texts and new practices. Otherwise there would be no Mahayana or Vajrayana.

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