Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

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Tenma
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Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by Tenma » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:51 am

So we suffer because of our desires and attachments, and we wish not to suffer.
However, why don't we wish to suffer?

SteRo
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by SteRo » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:54 am

The 'not wanting to suffer' is a manifestation in the sphere of experience (the clinging aggregates aka self) and results from the fact that experience of suffering is a disruptive state which does not correspond to the reality that is beyond the sphere of experience. So the 'not wanting to suffer' is a disguised phenomenon that ultimately is empty of personal self and driven by reality.

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Queequeg
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:31 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:51 am
So we suffer because of our desires and attachments, and we wish not to suffer.
However, why don't we wish to suffer?
Because suffering is not pleasurable. The other side of that samsaric equation is that we seek pleasure, or at least neutrality.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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KathyLauren
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by KathyLauren » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:45 pm

Suffering is the wish that things would be other than the way they are.

It is a mistake to think of "not wanting" and "suffering" as two different entities. The not wanting is the suffering. That is how desire and suffering are related: they are the same thing.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

polo
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by polo » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:38 pm

KathyLauren wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:45 pm
Suffering is the wish that things would be other than the way they are.

It is a mistake to think of "not wanting" and "suffering" as two different entities. The not wanting is the suffering. That is how desire and suffering are related: they are the same thing.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

Only if the "not wanting" is strong enough to affect you. Anyway what you said does make sense.
So when my neighbors make a lot of noise in the night my desire of not wanting to hear that noise creates the suffering.
Glad you mentioned this for I had never given it a thought. What a surprise for me. Thank you....

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:51 am
So we suffer because of our desires and attachments, and we wish not to suffer.
However, why don't we wish to suffer?
To be a bit more precise (or, picky, if you prefer),
we don't really suffer because of our desires and attachments, but rather,
because we mistakenly think that our desires and attachments (which are temporary)
will bring lasting satisfaction (happiness).

Even though we all know that some day we will die,
we operate out of a sense of self-permanence, which is reinforced by our constant experience:
I was here a minute ago, and I'm here now, and I believe I will be here another minute from now.
I expect to be here (alive) next week, and so on...
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Fo Ming (Buddha Bright) Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

tkp67
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by tkp67 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:54 pm

This was posted two days ago and is relevant.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... iding-pain

The Neuroscience of Seeking Pleasure and Avoiding Pain.

Specific neurons may drive animals' motivation to seek pleasure or avoid pain.


The particular paper the article is based on

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3367001
Abstract

The ventral pallidum (VP) is critical for invigorating reward seeking and is also involved in punishment avoidance, but how it contributes to such opposing behavioural actions remains unclear. Here we show that GABAergic and glutamatergic VP neurons selectively control behaviour in opposing motivational contexts. In vivo recording combined with optogenetics in mice revealed that these two populations oppositely encode positive and negative motivational value, are differentially modulated by animal’s internal state and determine the behavioural response during motivational conflict. Furthermore, GABAergic VP neurons are essential for movements towards reward in a positive motivational context, but suppress movements in an aversive context. In contrast, glutamatergic VP neurons are essential for movements to avoid a threat but suppress movements in an appetitive context. Our results indicate that GABAergic and glutamatergic VP neurons encode the drive for approach and avoidance, respectively, with the balance between their activities determining the type of motivational behaviour.

DharmaN00b
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by DharmaN00b » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:36 am

Tenma wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:51 am
, why don't we wish to suffer?
If our wishes pertain to desires and attachment then that leaves little room for the consideration of how disaster can occur.

Having a false sense of security prevents stress, like being in a zoo.

Both good and bad for longevity, but mostly good. :spy: :spy: :spy:

Sādhaka
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by Sādhaka » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:29 am

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? Why did Judas grab the Romans while Jesus slept?

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well wisher
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by well wisher » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:46 am

In my opinion and experiences: the topic of suffering is highly subjective and easily differs between different people (with different sets of values and experiences ...etc.). Thus it seems at least a bit of conflict is unavoidable during interactions. That is why negotiations / conciliation is important.

But overall, consider these rhetorical questions: who likes to suffer needlessly? Isn't there better ways to do things with less suffering?
I would say it is a noble goal to eliminate suffering completely (a.k.a Nirvana stage). Just the approach might different at different times (eg. adaption -getting used to undesirable situation via repetition, improvise, find alternatives ... etc.)

Lessening the desires, and lowering expectations, definitely helps reduce the causes of sufferings, although I am not sure if the downside is to be perceived by others as a "vegetable" desire-less or "cold passionless" person. Oh well, to each their own :shrug:

Sādhaka
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Re: Why Don't We Want To Suffer?

Post by Sādhaka » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:35 pm

Sādhaka wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:29 am
Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? Why did Judas grab the Romans while Jesus slept?
Of course I should give credit where it is due.

It is a ‘koan’ from none other than Ghostface A.K.A. Tony Starks of the Wu Tang Clan. 😎

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