Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Queequeg
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Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg » Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 pm

Jake and I have been discussing our interest in studying the Abhidharmakosabhasyam of Vasubandhu (the "Kosa") recently and thought we might give it a shot as a book club here on DW. Seeing that others might have an interest, and hoping to capitalize on the collection of learned members here who might be able to offer input from time to time, we thought it might make for a fruitful effort.

We're going to have it here in the Discovering Mahayana Buddhism subforum so that the thread can be fully moderated, meaning, posts will require approval before they appear in public. We hope that this will keep the discussion focused and maintain a level of quality.

It is a big work, running to four volumes in the English translation (from the French by Poussin). We'll try to keep a certain pace, but this will of course depend on the participants. If it loses steam, well, we'll only have ourselves to blame. We're also anticipating this as an open ended study, so we have no set schedule.

So, with that, how about it Wheelers?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm » Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 pm
Jake and I have been discussing our interest in studying the Abhidharmakosabhasyam of Vasubandhu (the "Kosa") recently and thought we might give it a shot as a book club here on DW. Seeing that others might have an interest, and hoping to capitalize on the collection of learned members here who might be able to offer input from time to time, we thought it might make for a fruitful effort.

We're going to have it here in the Discovering Mahayana Buddhism subforum so that the thread can be fully moderated, meaning, posts will require approval before they appear in public. We hope that this will keep the discussion focused and maintain a level of quality.

It is a big work, running to four volumes in the English translation (from the French by Poussin). We'll try to keep a certain pace, but this will of course depend on the participants. If it loses steam, well, we'll only have ourselves to blame. We're also anticipating this as an open ended study, so we have no set schedule.

So, with that, how about it Wheelers?
You only really to study chapters 1-6, which cover suffering (1-2), the cause of suffering (3-4), and the cessastion of suffering (5-6). You don''t really need to study the path (7-8) since we do not practice this path. So the last two chapters are academic only.

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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg » Fri May 29, 2020 10:05 pm

Thanks, M. That's the kind of input we were hoping for.

In terms of the path - is that because its the Sarvastivadin path that is described there?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm » Fri May 29, 2020 10:33 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:05 pm
Thanks, M. That's the kind of input we were hoping for.

In terms of the path - is that because its the Sarvastivadin path that is described there?
Yes, hinayāna path.

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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris » Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 pm
Jake and I have been discussing our interest in studying the Abhidharmakosabhasyam of Vasubandhu (the "Kosa") recently and thought we might give it a shot as a book club here on DW. Seeing that others might have an interest, and hoping to capitalize on the collection of learned members here who might be able to offer input from time to time, we thought it might make for a fruitful effort.

We're going to have it here in the Discovering Mahayana Buddhism subforum so that the thread can be fully moderated, meaning, posts will require approval before they appear in public. We hope that this will keep the discussion focused and maintain a level of quality.

It is a big work, running to four volumes in the English translation (from the French by Poussin). We'll try to keep a certain pace, but this will of course depend on the participants. If it loses steam, well, we'll only have ourselves to blame. We're also anticipating this as an open ended study, so we have no set schedule.

So, with that, how about it Wheelers?
You only really to study chapters 1-6, which cover suffering (1-2), the cause of suffering (3-4), and the cessastion of suffering (5-6). You don''t really need to study the path (7-8) since we do not practice this path. So the last two chapters are academic only.
Geez, I wish I knew this before I ordered all four volumes! :tongue:

Hopefully will be here soon!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm » Fri May 29, 2020 10:42 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 pm
Jake and I have been discussing our interest in studying the Abhidharmakosabhasyam of Vasubandhu (the "Kosa") recently and thought we might give it a shot as a book club here on DW. Seeing that others might have an interest, and hoping to capitalize on the collection of learned members here who might be able to offer input from time to time, we thought it might make for a fruitful effort.

We're going to have it here in the Discovering Mahayana Buddhism subforum so that the thread can be fully moderated, meaning, posts will require approval before they appear in public. We hope that this will keep the discussion focused and maintain a level of quality.

It is a big work, running to four volumes in the English translation (from the French by Poussin). We'll try to keep a certain pace, but this will of course depend on the participants. If it loses steam, well, we'll only have ourselves to blame. We're also anticipating this as an open ended study, so we have no set schedule.

So, with that, how about it Wheelers?
You only really to study chapters 1-6, which cover suffering (1-2), the cause of suffering (3-4), and the cessastion of suffering (5-6). You don''t really need to study the path (7-8) since we do not practice this path. So the last two chapters are academic only.
Geez, I wish I knew this before I ordered all four volumes! :tongue:

Hopefully will be here soon!
Well, vol. 4 has the most excellent "refutation of the pugala" chapter, chapter 9.

Kunzang Tobgyal
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Kunzang Tobgyal » Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:42 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 pm


You only really to study chapters 1-6, which cover suffering (1-2), the cause of suffering (3-4), and the cessastion of suffering (5-6). You don''t really need to study the path (7-8) since we do not practice this path. So the last two chapters are academic only.
Geez, I wish I knew this before I ordered all four volumes! :tongue:

Hopefully will be here soon!
Well, vol. 4 has the most excellent "refutation of the pugala" chapter, chapter 9.

Is the Poussin translation the one you recommended Malcolm?

Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 30, 2020 2:56 am

Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:42 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 pm
Geez, I wish I knew this before I ordered all four volumes! :tongue:

Hopefully will be here soon!
Well, vol. 4 has the most excellent "refutation of the pugala" chapter, chapter 9.

Is the Poussin translation the one you recommended Malcolm?
It’s has its issues, but it is the easiest to obtain.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:51 am

Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 pm
Is the Poussin translation the one you recommended Malcolm?
There are actually three Poussin translations: his own into French and then two from Poussin's French into English. The older and better known of the latter, by Leo Pruden, has now been superseded by the more recent one by Gelong Lodrö Sangpo (Motilal Banarsidass 2012).

Lodrö's added many annotations of his own based on more recent Sarvāstivāda scholarship, making each of the four volumes about twice the length of Pruden's. In the first volume there's also has a 60-page introduction by Bhikkhu Dhammajoti which provides a fine orientation to the Sarvāstivādin system for anyone who's completely new to it. As for the translation itself, though I've only read the chapter on the Pudgalavāda, it impressed me as quite an improvement over the earlier effort.

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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by jake » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:51 am
Kunzang Tobgyal wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 pm
Is the Poussin translation the one you recommended Malcolm?
There are actually three Poussin translations: his own into French and then two from Poussin's French into English. The older and better known of the latter, by Leo Pruden, has now been superseded by the more recent one by Gelong Lodrö Sangpo (Motilal Banarsidass 2012).

Lodrö's added many annotations of his own based on more recent Sarvāstivāda scholarship, making each of the four volumes about twice the length of Pruden's. In the first volume there's also has a 60-page introduction by Bhikkhu Dhammajoti which provides a fine orientation to the Sarvāstivādin system for anyone who's completely new to it. As for the translation itself, though I've only read the chapter on the Pudgalavāda, it impressed me as quite an improvement over the earlier effort.
Thank you, Venerable. Do others have a copy of the newer translation? I'd love to hear their comments on it prior to purchasing.

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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:10 pm

I ordered the Pruden version.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by jake » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:44 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:10 pm
I ordered the Pruden version.
That's Grigoris, I've that one too but always happy to have a reason to spend more on books. :) Would you be game for joining a book discussion here?


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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:17 pm

The Gelong Lodro Sangpo version is cheaper and in hard back.

On special at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Abhidharmakosa-B ... 326&sr=8-1

Yes, I am interested.

When do we start?

I also have all four volumes in electronic version.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:40 pm

Wow, 50% off!
On the wishlist.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:45 pm

What's a reasonable pace to start off with? Should we start with the intro or just jump in? It would be neat if we could start with an intro material that would contextualize the work.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by jake » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:15 pm

Starting with the introduction makes sense to me. A while back I found this website, there are a few PDFs that summarize things which y'all may find handy: https://abhidharmakosa.wordpress.com/

I'll begin reading the introduction this week. If anyone finds other works that provide context for the Kosa, that would be great.

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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by zerwe » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:31 pm

I have all four volumes in an electronic version. I would love to participate, but may need to just follow casually as I have a ton on my plate at the moment (NP school, daily practice, and Purbochok's text on Lorig).
Shaun :namaste:

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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:21 pm

So how are we going to structure this?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:21 pm
So how are we going to structure this?
I would start with the dhātu chapter.

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