What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Ginkyo
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Ginkyo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:32 pm

r/SGIwhistleblowers is a cesspool.

I used to read a lot of their stuff, thinking I was getting the inside story. And for a while, in a way, it seemed I was. I wouldn't know a lot of what I do about the Gakkai if I hadn't had spent time there.

But what a lot of awful stuff to wade through. After a while it was clear that people were posting under different names, using the same phrases, repeating exactly the same stories. It wasn't hard to put two and two together.

When I called people out for racism and homophobia I got banned.

The woman who runs it, u/blanchefromage: She must wake up every day in total rage against Ikeda. It totally, absolutely consumes her. I would hate to be like that about anything. That, to me, is Hell.

For all its manifest faults, triumphalism and weirdness, I choose to stay in the organisation. I owe it for letting me know about the practice. And what it does, it does incredibly well. Religious corporations like SGI, and leaders like Ikeda, do what they do; good, bad, brave and weird. It's just how it is.

It feels a bit like kremlinology during the cold war. I'm hoping the next chapter will start sooner that than later.

hopefullotus
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by hopefullotus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:47 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:25 pm
KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:06 am
r/sgiwhistleblowers
Take anything those folks say with generous helping of skepticism.

You want to see what happens when people stew in anger and aversion, there you go. Some people get attached to things they hate, too.
Oof, yupp. I was initially totally taken aback by the anger there and it made me so furious at SGI but then I realized that those people are REALLY attached to their hate. Now I'm learning the healthy balance between admitting that there are valid criticisms of SGI and also holding onto my own faith and practice.

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Yavana
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Yavana » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:03 pm

This post has been edited to remove off topic remarks
Ginkyo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:32 pm
I used to read a lot of their stuff, thinking I was getting the inside story. And for a while, in a way, it seemed I was. I wouldn't know a lot of what I do about the Gakkai if I hadn't had spent time there.
What did they teach you about SGI?
The woman who runs it, u/blanchefromage: She must wake up every day in total rage against Ikeda. It totally, absolutely consumes her. I would hate to be like that about anything. That, to me, is Hell.
I can only imagine. The split with Shoshu must have been really hard. I've read and heard that it got very ugly on both sides. There were lots of nasty personal attacks and it was like a cold holy war. Over a decade later they were still making it a point to remind everyone how bad Shoshu is and encouraging everyone to share whatever less-than-positive experiences they had with Shoshu.

Must have been really hard on the pioneer members, too. All that work and dedication and then suddenly "SGI is at holy war with Nichiren Shoshu. SGI has always been at holy war with Nichiren Shoshu." Reading through those pre-split pubs was always interesting.
For all its manifest faults, triumphalism and weirdness, I choose to stay in the organisation.
Honbutsu doctrine was always an issue for me. I always assumed that the reasoning of Shoshu's doctrines, which SGI inherited, were rooted in implications of the wording of the gosho in the original Japanese... but nothing I read was ever really convincing.

Personally, I liked being part of a large group, I identified with the zeal for kosen-rufu and their fighting spirit, and I enjoyed the guidance videos from Ikeda. Most the activity chores were a joy, frankly. I still have Ifu Dodo No Uta on my playlist. SGI also taught me that I love rice balls, and for a while, I was on the path to becoming one.

... But personally, I was drawn to Buddhism by the life of Shakyamuni, and as much as they deny it, even the gosho SGI have translated into English indicate that Nichiren also admired the Shakyan. Nichiren may have been bodhisattva Visistacaritra, he may have been the general of the Dharma, but he is not the Dharma King.
And what it does, it does incredibly well. Religious corporations like SGI, and leaders like Ikeda, do what they do; good, bad, brave and weird.
Illaraza more or less claims they're like the Catholic Church as depicted in the movie, "The Godfather III." What do you know that they've been doing, exactly?

narhwal90
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by narhwal90 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:04 am

The split was very traumatic, entire families who had been practicing in (then NSA) left for the temple, it literally tore the organization apart. Many of the pioneer members and others really took it hard when the Sho Hondo was demolished- they had put their heart and soul in to the fundraising and related campaigns, it was to be the stage of kosen rufu... all gone in a few months seemingly at the whim of the corrupt priesthood- that was the story in the air at the time, but of course Nichiren Shoshu have their side of it.

Honbutsu never bothered me much after I decided to make up my own mind on the issue- SGI can say whatever they please but the views I adopt or not are my business. Nichiren as a fisherman's son turned monk who created an interesting and inspirational practice has long been sufficient for me. I value the fraternity of being in SGI a lot, recently I've resumed doing toban shifts at the local community center with some of the folks I started practicing with. Its a break from the meeting rotation, a good chance to talk outside the usual study topics- get some more incense & candles for the altar.

SGI with all its faults does reach newcomers well. My last toban shift one of our district's newcomers was minding the desk because traffic made us a bit late, he gave me the wry look like an oldtimer when I said I was unable to make the weekend district study meeting (going on work travel so was prepping for the sunday flight). Pretty cool :)

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Minobu
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Minobu » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:17 pm

as for presidents of SGI..

the fourth president freaked my mother out...

He was made president , i think his name began with a H ....when President Ikeda stepped down and became honorary president...
he visited president ikeda had new ideas that were not in agreement and went home and had a heart attack and died....they never mention him...

Still this is not Gakki bashing...that will cause you anxiety and thwart your growth...would recommend you all who do it...STOP....

illarraza
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by illarraza » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Aside - It has always struck me - Ikeda's given name, Daisaku 大作, literally translates as "Great Builder". I don't know if that is his real name or a pen name. Either way, he at least subliminally, gets a lot of mileage out of that.
He was born Taisaku (Fat Building) and changed his name to Daisaku (Great Building). The Sho Hondo was his Great Building and now it is dust.

Mark

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Queequeg
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:05 pm

Off topic comments removed. Please stay on topic.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:07 pm

Minobu wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:17 pm
his name began with a H ....
Hojo. A descendant of the Hojo family that ruled Japan during Nichiren's life.

Ironic that a descendant of that family would become leader of a Nichiren group.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

dude
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by dude » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:39 am

Wouldn't it be strange if the inheritor of the will of Nichiren Daishonin didn't meet with persecution and slander?

dzzi
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by dzzi » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:44 pm

Just found this forum and thread after googling this question. I’m really glad to see a community with healthy discourse and a little bit of skepticism in addressing the SGI community, a blend of those who practice this type of Buddhism and those on the periphery of it contributing to conversation.

I’ve been all over the Internet researching SGI in recent months (I was a casual practitioner on and off for a few years but decided to start going to regular meetings and receive my Gohonzon) and it seems like for the most part I’ve been finding a bunch of full-on kool-aid drinkers and reactionary hater communities, but very little in between which has been very concerning to me as someone who has always been a natural skeptic.

I do see a lot of value in the practice as the act of chanting itself helps me manage my depression and anxiety, and the community surrounding it keeps me from falling off the wagon with my practice. But man, do they idolize Ikeda in a way I’m super uncomfortable with.

The day I received my Gohonzon everything felt super right about it until someone got up and asked us all to sing “Forever Sensei,” which I’d never heard before and honestly put a really weird taste in my mouth about the whole thing. I’m still really glad about it but between that and the study meetings where all we do is read Ikeda quotes from Living Buddhism, I feel like I need someone to talk to about how weird it is that they’re talking about this guy all the time while insisting that they’re not idolizing him and he’s just a normal dude to them. BS, you’re idolizing him all the time.

Sure he’s a great philosopher and peace advocate and I get the need for a figurehead and a mentor for people to latch on to. But can’t people view him less as Jesus and more as like Bob Ross or Fred Rodgers or something? Just a nice dude in our lives with some good advice? That’s what I’d want.

Anyway, I feel really ill prepared for what’s to come when he passes. It seems like the organization is unprepared and is just destined to go nuts a little. If I’m already getting tired of Ikeda this, Ikeda that all the time, is it going to be bearable when his time comes or will it be a big cry and praise party for months and months at every meeting? Does he have a clear successor? What is the organization planning to do? Echoing another commenter it would pleasantly surprise me if they elected a female leader, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen this go round. Maybe the successor after next. Are there any clear factions you guys can already see appearing? Do you know of any other places to further this discussion or do a little research not directly tied to those propagating SGI, but just some plain old facts and impartial outlooks?

narhwal90
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by narhwal90 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:30 pm

Ah the Forever Sensei song goes way back, I remember it from the 90's- standard fare for youth division activities and always kind of awkward. But I've no idea how the factions will play out. It seems like a classic case of an organization eventually having to move beyond its founders; it wouldn't be there without them but it has to happen anyhow. Personally I'd like a return to the more serious sorts of study that characterized the old Nichiren Shoshu in the US, before the schism; ie more gosho, less Human Revolution. It would be great if gosho study got half the pages that the Shinichi Yamamoto business occupies in the study pubs. I remember xeroxing a full run of the Human Revolution articles for a couple folks, probably a foot or 2 of total thickness- I never found any of it inspirational but I guess some do.

dude
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by dude » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:13 am

President Ikeda has pretty much taught me everything I know about Buddhism.
It took me a good three years to accept Buddhism, and more than once a question I had in mind would get answer from him that just happened to be published in the World Tribune. I can understand, in a way, how at times. from outside the organization at least, SGI members seem to do hero-worship. I used to feel that way but I don't now.
"The Human Revolution" and The New Human Revolution," for me, provide a first-draft outline of the way forward for Buddhism in modern times. Of course the gosho is the final authority, but I find President Ikeda's guidance to be very helpful in understanding Nichiren's writings.

Mysticlaw
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Mysticlaw » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:21 am

It doesn’t matter at all. For SGI members who understood the purpose of the practice and have the correct understanding of the mentor and disciple relationship, will continue to advance in their practice and helping others to do so.

To have a correct understanding of the mentor and disciple relationship, we have to rely on the four standards [四依] , also four reliances.

From Nichrenlibrary.org: Four standards that Buddhists must follow. According to the Nirvana Sutra and the Vimalakīrti Sutra, the four standards are (1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.

Therefore, to us, Daisaku Ikeda is a person who diligently and continuously strove to practice the mystic law that Shakyamuni was enlightened to, and encouraging members to do so through his words and actions. He used his life to teach Nichiren Buddhism to the best of his ability. When we learn about the way he live his life to realise kosen rufu, we are learning with the intention to understand the spirit and meaning behind his actions.

Below passage by Dr. Mikio Matsuoka further explains the point:
From https://www.sgi.org/resources/study-mat ... akkai.html

1.4 Mentor and disciple

Buddhist practice is usually carried out based on a relationship of mentor and disciple. Is it possible for this hierarchical relationship to interfere with the goal of realizing a humanistic approach to religion? In order to answer this question, it is essential to investigate why a mentor is needed and whether there is any disparity in religious dignity between mentor and disciple. These two points are of vital importance.

I would like to focus on the fact that Shakyamuni instructed his disciples just before his demise to make the Law their teacher. Generally, faith in an impersonal Law, due to its very impersonality, makes it difficult for people feel a sense of reverence toward the Law and often results in diminished religious zeal. To overcome this difficultly to revere the Law as the teacher, the need arises for a human teacher who can show people the Law through their teaching and behavior. This allows individuals to sense the compassionate workings of the Law as an indivisible part of the teacher's life. In this way, respect for the Law as the fundamental teacher begins to blossom in people's hearts. Bergson asserted that Buddhism lacks zeal, but I believe that Buddhists who persevere on the path of mentor and disciple, living a life of compassion based on the Law, can also obtain a level of apostolic passion evidenced by believers of monotheistic religions. In addition, because their lives are actively engaged with the ultimate Law of the cosmos, they do not lose sight of their fundamental subjectivity. By maintaining steadfast faith in the Law, Buddhist mentors and disciples keep their passion as practitioners fresh and strive to pursue a human-centered practice.

dude
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by dude » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:16 am

Come to think of it, this question is kind of irrelevant in a way.
President Ikeda has said more than once that the organization is now so big a single person can only do so much.
I think both the quasi fanatical admiration for him and the ridiculous hatred some feel toward him are proof of the workings of the Law and accord with the predictions in the gosho.
As for how great he is : He's deeply respected by leaders and intellectuals all over the world, and is more devoted to his practice than I have ever seen in a religious person, priest or layman. From the day he joined, he has exerted himself so hard that Toda is said to once have said to him "You're trying to kill yourself aren't you?"
I can say for sure that, although I've never received personal instruction from him directly, I would not have a chance or the will to continue my practice up to today.
The gosho does say that the Law to which the Buddha is enlightened is the real authority, so we do have to find our own way. It's up to each of us to judge who's right in the current disputes, but we shouldn't be surprised when such conflicts arise. It's only natural that they do.

narhwal90
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by narhwal90 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:48 pm

Well put dude, thanks :)

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Minobu
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Minobu » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:44 pm

I see his life as one with the Law and was the perfect instrument for the Law to spread throughout the world outside of Japan.

When he dies this legacy of him will live on. He is responsible for bringing this practice to the world. And deserves much credit for his life's work.

It's going to be a very sad day when he dies. and rightfully so, but everyone, even the haters should show some form of gratitude towards the man and his work and legacy.

He is from a different era. Wore torn tokyo , half starved .



My dad who was cured of an incurable rare illness through the practice once said. "When he walks on water i will join in this adoration ".

Both my parents were members, dad's ashes are at Taisekiji .

They were both referred to as rebels against this idolatry of the man and openly said it was wrong .



The one thing that annoys me about him is what he said about the Hippies. He said something along the line and used the title of a Bob Dylan song to describe the Hippies "Desolation Row " . I don't think he got the song, and used it so wrong. He totally lost me when i read that.

I said to myself " they say this guy is enlightened but he missed the point of the hippie movement completely. In fact my view was a lot of people adopted Eastern thought because of the hippie movement .

The Hippies were the instrument to a lot of today's world.


I met Ikeda once in toronto. He was coming out of some Hotel and we were lined up to watch him go to his limo. I said " Sensei....Sensei...and on the third Sensei ....he stopped came back to me and with young girl translator i was told he said " Study Hard !"


weird thing was he was staring at something above my head when he spoke to me...lol...i thought he saw something or someone nobody else could see....So even myself, is drawn into the Mystique of the Man.

dude
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by dude » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 am

I doubt he's heard the song, or even would understand it. I'd speculate that maybe he meant that the despair we hippies felt defined us to him.
And you're right about him being the perfect instrument.

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Minobu
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Minobu » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm

dude wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 am
I doubt he's heard the song, or even would understand it. I'd speculate that maybe he meant that the despair we hippies felt defined us to him.
And you're right about him being the perfect instrument.
He might be the perfect instrument , but thats about living for the Lotus sutra.

all the money and stadium love , buying priceless art pieces, as well as Victor hugo's home , when Les Miserable was a big Broadway hit.

too much weirdness.

France was not happy to see the famous treasure, Victor Hugo 's home,go the way of a Japanese billionaire due to bidding.

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jake
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by jake » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:28 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
France was not happy to see the famous treasure, Victor Hugo 's home,go the way of a Japanese billionaire due to bidding.
What? Victor Hugo's home is a museum owned by the City of Paris. What are the sources for your other claims?

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Caoimhghín
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Re: What will happen when Daisaku Ikeda dies?

Post by Caoimhghín » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:49 pm

jake wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:28 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:07 pm
France was not happy to see the famous treasure, Victor Hugo 's home,go the way of a Japanese billionaire due to bidding.
What? Victor Hugo's home is a museum owned by the City of Paris. What are the sources for your other claims?
Was the Victor Hugo House of Literature in Bièvres what was being thought of? It's at le Château des Roches. I don't know what the connection of the château itself is to Victor Hugo, but SGI apparently established a house of literature there devoted to him.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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