Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

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Minobu
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Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Minobu »

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Shotenzenjin
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Minobu wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:18 am https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 16#p551316

very very cool of them ...
Can you point out where the changes are?
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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Minobu
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Minobu »

correct me if I am wrong.

I was taught by the Gakki when they were the lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and when I was in Nichiren ShoShu after the divorce that there were documents from Nichiren Shonin to Nikko Shonin proving Nichiren Shonin was the True Buddha of Kuon Ganjo

now it seems that on the Gakki's site in their dictionary they say that
Nichikan (1665–1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple, identified Nichiren as that Buddha
Which means ,this is who came up with this concept at taisekiji , centuries after Nikko Shonin and the alleged document.


So for me they are doing one of two things ...explaining the history of a certain belief held by the only school that believes Nichiren Shonin is the Buddha of Kuon Ganjo exactly when it was first introduced.

or they are just trolling Nichiren ShoShu with false history.


If you read the article they explain the concept of everyone being this Buddha.
In contrast, the Buddha of beginningless time is eternal and also represents eternal life endowed with both the nine worlds and Buddhahood. In The Opening of the Eyes, Nichiren states: “This is the doctrine of original cause and original effect. It reveals that the nine worlds are all present in beginningless Buddhahood and that Buddhahood is inherent in the beginningless nine worlds. This is the true mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, the true hundred worlds and thousand factors, the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” (235). Here “original cause” refers to the “beginningless nine worlds,” and “original effect” to “beginningless Buddhahood.” What Nichiren defined as “the true three thousand realms in a single moment of life” is the original state of life. To manifest this state of life is the attainment of Buddhahood for all people. Nichiren established the practice that enables everyone to achieve this by inscribing the Gohonzon, or the object of devotion that embodies this original state of life, and prescribing the invocation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. See also Buddha of limitless joy; true Buddha.

read the part where they explain this "I"
Nichiren explains the passage of the Lotus Sutra cited above, “It has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood,” in The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings. He says, “‘I in fact’ is explaining that Shakyamuni in fact attained Buddhahood in the inconceivably remote past. The meaning of this chapter, however, is that ‘I’ represents the living beings of the phenomenal world. ‘I’ here refers to each and every being in the Ten Worlds. ‘In fact’ establishes that ‘I’ is a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies. This is what is being called a ‘fact.’ ‘Attained’ refers both to the one who attains and to what is attained. ‘Attain’ means to open or reveal. It is to reveal that the beings of the phenomenal world are Buddhas eternally endowed with the three bodies. ‘Buddhahood’ means being enlightened to this.” Here Nichiren is saying that every being is essentially “a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies,” a true Buddha. In this sense, “true Buddha” refers to the Buddha nature eternally inherent in the lives of all living beings. In The True Aspect of All Phenomena, Nichiren states, “A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha” (384). See also Buddha of beginningless time; Buddha of limitless joy; true cause.
So the Gakki has changed their view on this Buddha of Kuon Ganjo from Being Nichiren shonin to all sentient beings..

which I believe was the truth up until Nichikan babes decided otherwise.


i used the Gakki dictionary which can be accessed from ...
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/84
narhwal90
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by narhwal90 »

The 2nd paragraph of the 1st prayer of the SGI liturgy states "I offer my profound gratitude and appreciation to Nichiren Daishonin, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law" - quoted from the SGI app on my phone. Your conclusion might be a bit hasty- this language has been around since the 80's at least, though back in the day "Buddha" was prefixed by the word "True".
tkp67
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by tkp67 »

Note Nichiren makes the rhetorical statement does it apply (identifying a bodhisattva superior practices) to himself then says his is "only" a "local deputy". Later in the same gosho he reveals his enlightenment is the enlightenment of the lotus.

Foreshadowed earlier in the gosho is a statement on the 12th perfection regarding both provisional and true aspects of one existence.
Question: The passage you have just cited deals with the transmission to Bodhisattva Superior Practices and the others. Why, then, do you speak about “the secret Law handed down to Nichiren himself and kept in his mind”?

Answer: I, Nichiren, am leading the way in propagating the secret Law that Bodhisattva Superior Practices has been entrusted to disseminate. Does this not mean that the transmission concerns myself? I am acting as one of the local deputies for Bodhisattva Superior Practices.

The fact is that, once the Latter Day of the Law has begun, this Law of the natural enlightenment, which is bright in and of itself, ceases to be of any benefit. It should be employed simply as a supplementary practice. The only primary practice to be employed is [the chanting of] Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

The Great Teacher Dengyō states: “The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai trusted and obeyed Shakyamuni and worked to uphold the Lotus school, spreading its teachings throughout China. We of Mount Hiei inherited the doctrine from T’ien-t’ai and work to uphold the Lotus school and to disseminate its teachings throughout Japan.”42

Now I, Nichiren, have inherited the seven characters Nam-myoho-renge-kyo within the treasure tower and in this era of the Latter Day of the Law I work to disseminate them throughout Japan. This is the Buddhist Law that is appropriate to this time and this p.909country, is it not? Now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, anyone who attempts to spread the Law of the natural enlightenment, which is bright in and of itself, and to make it the primary practice, will invariably fall into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. There can be no doubt of this.

The fact that you have set aside the teachings of the provisional schools you have been practicing for some years and have become a disciple of Nichiren shows that you are a wise man who is able to understand what doctrine is truly suitable to this time and this country. Nichiren’s disciples, like Nichiren himself, should invariably practice the correct principles. Even though one may be a wise man or a scholar, if he falls into hell, he will amount to nothing and can be of no assistance. The essential thing, therefore, is that at each hour, at each moment, one should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

I know that you are already familiar with the doctrines that I have discussed above, but I have ventured to write about them here. You should make a very careful examination of the doctrine of the eighteen perfections. The doctrine of the lotus of the entity of the Law, which was handed down to me and represents Nichiren’s own enlightenment, is just as I have described it on various occasions in the past. For details you may refer to Daily Records of the Transmission. There is no more recondite doctrine than this in the Tendai school. The profound principle represented by the threefold contemplation in a single mind and three thousand realms in a single moment of life does not go beyond the single phrase Myoho-renge-kyo. This is a point that you should never forget! This is a point that you should never forget!

The Great Teacher Dengyō states, “The reverend priest out of his compassion has transmitted to us in a single phrase the threefold contemplation in a single mind.”43 And the work regarding the transmission of the profound meaning44 states, “It is the wonderful meaning expressed in one phrase, the profound principle of the single teaching.”

The “Life Span” chapter of the Lotus Sutra says, “At all times I have this thought in mind:45 How can I cause living beings to gain entry into the unsurpassed way and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?” “This thought” of “at all times I have this thought in mind” is one instant of thought or a single moment of life comprising three thousand realms that is originally inherent in Buddhas and all living beings. You must keep this secret! You must keep this secret!

With my deep respect,

Nichiren
“The twelfth is called the perfection of the provisional [the nine worlds] and the true [Buddhahood] because, when one realizes the doctrines of the Lotus Sutra, one will find that one’s life is true and at the same time provisional, provisional and at the same time true. Provisional and true are mutually identical, without lack or deficiency, and therefore they represent the Law that is endowed with the three bodies. Hence this is the Law that is constantly preached and set forth by the Buddhas. [Hence the identity of the true and the provisional is called lotus.]
---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/331

On the Eighteen Perfections
Last edited by jake on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote error.
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Queequeg
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Queequeg »

I just compared the entries for True Buddha in the SG Dictionary of Buddhism (2002) (where Minobu pulled that definition) and A Dictionary of Buddhist Terms and Concepts, published by the Nichiren Shoshu International Center (1983).

They are indeed different. The NSIC publication makes no mention of Nichikan's contribution.

Clearly, SG, post schism, felt it was appropriate to be more forthcoming about the issue. It wasn't unknown to them. There are SG publications (in Japanese) dating to the 1950s and 60s that reference Nichikan's contributions.

This ought not necessarily be read as a repudiation of the Shoshu view of True Buddha - recall SG was distributing copies of a Nichikan mandala at the time. IIRC, Nichikan was viewed as a reformer of Taisekiji, or at least that is how he was presented post schism.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
tkp67
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by tkp67 »

I still don't see the controversy and my teacher went the way of SGI after the split. As one who recognizes, respects and resonates my teacher's view I still don't see offense in Shoshu actions. I.E. to say there is a deducible reasoning that could be applied here. More easily than suspecting something nefarious.

Did they remove Shakyamuni from the Gohonzon or the Lotus from the writings?

Does it make the practice more accessible for those who do not have the capacity to understand the doctrinal teachings from the point of Shakyamuni's enlightenment under the bodhi tree?

It seems as time continues there is only more information to digest which seems unsustainable. It makes me wonder if the focus was adjusted for the benefit of sentient beings.

I still cannot fathom Nichiren without Shakyamuni or the Lotus as a part of the entire teaching or holding them in the mind simultaneously with absolute equanimity but why should I think the same is impossible for Shoshu practitioners? I cannot fathom how doubt such as this can benefit anyone so I simply refuse to doubt. I don't have to understand how it is reconciled to cast aside doubt.

None of this is contending what you are saying I hope to make this clear. It is simply I have had to think about this very deeply and thought I might share some of the questions and outcomes to that questioning that I experienced in my own mind.

Queequeg wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:37 pm I just compared the entries for True Buddha in the SG Dictionary of Buddhism (2002) (where Minobu pulled that definition) and A Dictionary of Buddhist Terms and Concepts, published by the Nichiren Shoshu International Center (1983).

They are indeed different. The NSIC publication makes no mention of Nichikan's contribution.

Clearly, SG, post schism, felt it was appropriate to be more forthcoming about the issue. It wasn't unknown to them. There are SG publications (in Japanese) dating to the 1950s and 60s that reference Nichikan's contributions.

This ought not necessarily be read as a repudiation of the Shoshu view of True Buddha - recall SG was distributing copies of a Nichikan mandala at the time. IIRC, Nichikan was viewed as a reformer of Taisekiji, or at least that is how he was presented post schism.
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Minobu
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Minobu »

If one considers what Nichiren Shonin wanted us to know..

from the gosho posted above..
It is to reveal that the beings of the phenomenal world are Buddhas eternally endowed with the three bodies. ‘Buddhahood’ means being enlightened to this.” Here Nichiren is saying that every being is essentially “a Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies,” a true Buddha. In this sense, “true Buddha” refers to the Buddha nature eternally inherent in the lives of all living beings. In The True Aspect of All Phenomena, Nichiren states, “A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha” (384). See also Buddha of beginningless time; Buddha of limitless joy; true cause.
It is a huge difference when it comes to saying Nichiren is The Buddha of Kuon Ganjo along with the incorrigible new terms to define Lord Sakyamuni Buddha..

The subtleties of this is tantamount to having you literally think you are something other than what Nichiren Shonin taught.

He cleared the way for all beings to understand what they are..once you accept this, your entire outlook changes, as to what Nichiren Shonin wished.

The Gakki no longer defines Nichiren Shonin as the Buddha of Kuon Ganjo ...Nor The Eternal Buddha , which of course is Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo .

Some people end up thinking they are literally chanting to Nichiren Shonin..all sorts of misconceptions...

I don't understand the insistence on wanting to remain ignorant of what Nichiren Shonin taught the 6 senior priests. Do you honestly think He gave a complete new narrative and paradigm secretly to one priest. with documents to prove it...??????????

just saying something here...
there is a story told to people who get sucked into false hoods. it goes like this

A guy continually loses at a gambling parlour. His friends tell him that the place is corrupt and the games are fixed . the guy says , yeah i know but it is the only game in town..

fortunately Nichiren Shoshu is not the only game in town..The Original methods and narratives and paradigms can be found in Nichiren Shu...an unbroken lineage directly from Nichiren Shonin to the 6 senior priests.
tkp67
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by tkp67 »

Both Nichiren and Shakyamuni possessed the same enlightenment. Neither is less true than the other. Nichiren makes this clear. The only division is among practitioners and even then there has been no proof of malignant intent.

There are other ways to view this such as some minds requiring an independent entry, some requiring an causally indoctrinated entry way and those who want a formal lineage as a method of entry. This is just a simple example.
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Minobu
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by Minobu »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:10 pm Both Nichiren and Shakyamuni possessed the same enlightenment. Neither is less true than the other. Nichiren makes this clear. The only division is among practitioners and even then there has been no proof of malignant intent.

There are other ways to view this such as some minds requiring an independent entry, some requiring an causally indoctrinated entry way and those who want a formal lineage as a method of entry. This is just a simple example.
Actually the practitioners did not make the ShoShu narrative and paradigm.
They out of various reasons embrace it..at times for me it was all about fear..fear i would fall into hell, or my life would not continue as i would like it . my prayers would be ignored...
Both Nichiren and Shakyamuni possessed the same enlightenment
You do realize that enlightenment and Buddhahood are not one and the same...

All I am saying once i dropped the kuon banjo stuff an entire different way of approaching the entire practice sprang forth..

it's about right view....

You either want to read real gosho, practice as Nichiren Shonin taught, make it up as you go...follow false doctrination ..go at it with blind faith...or trust the 6 senior priests ... or say 5 of them were not so senior and were left out of a completely different teaching...

i ask you give me one viable reason that Nichiren Shonin would assemble 6 senior priests but only give one a secret document that changes everything...And oddly enough Nikko shonin never in His lifetime revealed this...or would have had an uproar and debate and what have you....don't forget they recorded their history...thats how we know whether something is fake or not..




anyway...as they say...i'm done beating the same horse ...anymore and :techproblem:

Albert Einstein's famous line: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

so i guess by trying to express this over and over proves i'm insane...there are a couple people inside me head they tell me otherwise...but then there are 3 that say i am insane...4 that don't care for anything except wearing a diaper and screaming for their blanky..and two who keep asking me to give away the boogy man i keep under my bed...he is a hard person to track down ...
tkp67
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Re: Seems Gakki study department has changed it's tune

Post by tkp67 »

Minobu wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:20 pm
You do realize that enlightenment and Buddhahood are not one and the same...
Yes and this is why I think ultimately that Nichiren wanted this to be understood on a personal level according to cause, conditions and capacity.

The point is that it might seem reasonable that (Nichiren) in the process of coming to understand Shakyamuni's supreme, complete and absolutely perfect enlightenment and developing a means to propagate it "as is" that is in practice in the age it was destined for speaks of an enlightenment no less supreme, complete and absolutely perfect.

Nichiren claims to posses the same enlightenment as the Lotus which is Shakyamuni's supreme, complete and absolutely perfect enlightenment.

I do not believe his claim to be unreasonable.

As easy as it is to point to the differences among us which often results in disparaging comments against Shoshu and SGI there is true cause outside the collective of Nichiren interests. People are suffering lives destined to the evil paths with little hope for escape and yet there are energies still being spent on correcting votaries and envoys.

I said when I first came here the last refuge of the devil of the sixth is the mind of the "enlightened" person. My experience thus far has only reinforced this view.
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