Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

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Jesse
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Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Jesse » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:27 am

So, I recently got an email that I had a PM from someone.(2 days ago.)

When I tried to read it Dharmawheel.net gives me the message:
You are not authorised to read private messages that are on hold.
I am not entirely sure what "on hold" means, but it led me to wondering if our "Private Messages" are indeed.. "Private".

If not, then they should be renamed, or it should be made publicly known that our messages are not private. Otherwise, that is a serious violation of privacy.
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krodha
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by krodha » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 am

Probably just means you need to delete some messages. You are only allowed 100 in your box at a time.

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Jesse
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Jesse » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:52 am

krodha wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 am
Probably just means you need to delete some messages. You are only allowed 100 in your box at a time.

That indeed was the issue. However, I still would like to know if PM's are private or not. It's a pretty big deal to me (and I imagine others.)

So, I await an official response to that. (Thank you!)
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Ayu » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:49 am

You are not authorised to read private messages that are on hold.
I never saw such a message. If a PM is deleted before reading the text is different, AFAIK.


Mods and Admins cannot read other PM's than their own. Fortunately, because there's too much crap to read for a mod anyhow.

Exception: moderating acts might be shared and discussed in the team.

If you insult or harrass people via PM the receiver has the option to report the PM. Then the whole team is able to read it in the report.
Also, some receivers might not be willing to follow our ToS - so, if you write to an asshole, he might publish it "somewhere else".
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:05 am

@jesse - I think the message you’re seeing is because your account has exceeded it storage quota, and you can’t see new messages until some old ones are deleted. That is a system-generated message that you’re seeing, and whilst I don’t know for sure, I am pretty certain that mods and admins can’t read PMs (although based on what I know of software, there is typically one admin role that can access everything on the system, but I’m pretty sure that this would never be generally used in the day to day.)
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:14 am

No, we don't have access to PM's unless the content of a PM has been reported.

Another user recently had the same problem as you.

You can see the solutions here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27479#p426216
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:38 pm

Jesse wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:52 am
krodha wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 am
Probably just means you need to delete some messages. You are only allowed 100 in your box at a time.

That indeed was the issue. However, I still would like to know if PM's are private or not. It's a pretty big deal to me (and I imagine others.)

So, I await an official response to that. (Thank you!)
Don't worry. No one can read the shade you cast. Nor can anyone read mine.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.

吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:13 pm

Regular mods do not have access to member pm's unless they are shared with us. I am pretty sure there are levels of admin permission that would enable access to all content on the site. PC or Mr. Snyder would need to answer this.

FWIW, mods here take our responsibilities very seriously (even as we (I) may sometimes play a buffoon in the forums). In the course of our work, reviewing posts, corresponding with concerned members (and believe me when I say that general members play a critical role in moderation by reporting activity contravening the ToS), we are privy to a lot of stuff that never goes public. We treat all of this with concern for the privacy of members. There is a responsibility of trust that I think I can say all mods and admins deeply feel. We are well aware that the success of DW depends on the trust we maintain with members of the forum.

That said, as a general rule, don't consider anything on the internet 100% private, ever. There is always the possibility that someone is listening. Not us, though.
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And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

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Jesse
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Jesse » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 am

Ok, That's all I was wanting to know. Whether or not PM's were open to reading as simple as reading a forum thread for mods/admins, etc.

But yes, the error I got was due to my inbox being full, I cleared my old messages, and it allowed me to release the new PMs.

Thank you for the responses! It's good to know that PMs are private.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by DNS » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:33 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:13 pm
Regular mods do not have access to member pm's unless they are shared with us. I am pretty sure there are levels of admin permission that would enable access to all content on the site. PC or Mr. Snyder would need to answer this.

That said, as a general rule, don't consider anything on the internet 100% private, ever. There is always the possibility that someone is listening. Not us, though.
Correct and good advice too. I can assure all that the mods and admins do not have access to PMs. There is no button or tab where mods or admins can access PMs and read them. However, since all material is stored on the server, there is a way PMs could be viewed, but I can assure you this is not done. It can only be done by our webmaster who handles all the techie issues. He is very busy and does not have the time to sift through tens of thousands of PMs, nor the interest, nor have I seen it, but they are stored in some part of the server, written in code and it would be difficult to access and convert to real text, but could be done if needed by law enforcement or some other agency, in the event of some criminal threats (of bodily harm, for example) were made by someone, a subpoena, etc.

In a similar way, if you go to certain websites and later delete your browsing history or even do a system restore, a law enforcement agency (if deemed necessary) could contact your ISP and in most cases still find which sites you visited (as the ISP will still have that history somewhere on their servers).

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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am

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Nothing is complete
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 am

Jesse wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 am
Ok, That's all I was wanting to know. Whether or not PM's were open to reading as simple as reading a forum thread for mods/admins, etc.

But yes, the error I got was due to my inbox being full, I cleared my old messages, and it allowed me to release the new PMs.

Thank you for the responses! It's good to know that PMs are private.
Being a mod gives you ALOT less power in terms of that kind of thing than you'd expect. Additionally, I don't think any of us would be interested in, or comfortable with snooping in people's PM's.

Despite some people's fanciful ideas about mods as power hungry fiends, I think most of us care about this community (I know I do, I've been using it for years now and it's become quite important to me in many ways) and would not want to see people's privacy violated like that.
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Jesse
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Jesse » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:50 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 am
Jesse wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 am
Ok, That's all I was wanting to know. Whether or not PM's were open to reading as simple as reading a forum thread for mods/admins, etc.

But yes, the error I got was due to my inbox being full, I cleared my old messages, and it allowed me to release the new PMs.

Thank you for the responses! It's good to know that PMs are private.
Being a mod gives you ALOT less power in terms of that kind of thing than you'd expect. Additionally, I don't think any of us would be interested in, or comfortable with snooping in people's PM's.

Despite some people's fanciful ideas about mods as power-hungry fiends, I think most of us care about this community (I know I do, I've been using it for years now and it's become quite important to me in many ways) and would not want to see people's privacy violated like that.
I don't think mods are power hungry, or whatever. I was just interested in clarifying a privacy issue for myself, and others who were interested. However, I don't suspect mods have any kind of crazy powers, that said, most BBS systems are moddable, and usually have a very active modding community.

Example:
https://github.com/ForumHulp/pmspy

You can download, and install all sorts of stuff like PM Reading mods etc.. Most are harmless and add value, but some, not so much.

So, I honestly just wanted clarification. Just because people want to know their privacy is safe, doesn't mean they are doing something wrong, or hiding something, or are paranoid. It's just a basic issue of trust.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:21 am

Jesse wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:50 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 am
Jesse wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 am
Ok, That's all I was wanting to know. Whether or not PM's were open to reading as simple as reading a forum thread for mods/admins, etc.

But yes, the error I got was due to my inbox being full, I cleared my old messages, and it allowed me to release the new PMs.

Thank you for the responses! It's good to know that PMs are private.
Being a mod gives you ALOT less power in terms of that kind of thing than you'd expect. Additionally, I don't think any of us would be interested in, or comfortable with snooping in people's PM's.

Despite some people's fanciful ideas about mods as power-hungry fiends, I think most of us care about this community (I know I do, I've been using it for years now and it's become quite important to me in many ways) and would not want to see people's privacy violated like that.
I don't think mods are power hungry, or whatever. I was just interested in clarifying a privacy issue for myself, and others who were interested. However, I don't suspect mods have any kind of crazy powers, that said, most BBS systems are moddable, and usually have a very active modding community.

Example:
https://github.com/ForumHulp/pmspy

You can download, and install all sorts of stuff like PM Reading mods etc.. Most are harmless and add value, but some, not so much.

So, I honestly just wanted clarification. Just because people want to know their privacy is safe, doesn't mean they are doing something wrong, or hiding something, or are paranoid. It's just a basic issue of trust.
Sure, the basic issue of trust works in the other direction too though.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Carlita » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm

Jesse wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:27 am
So, I recently got an email that I had a PM from someone.(2 days ago.)

When I tried to read it Dharmawheel.net gives me the message:
You are not authorised to read private messages that are on hold.
I am not entirely sure what "on hold" means, but it led me to wondering if our "Private Messages" are indeed.. "Private".

If not, then they should be renamed, or it should be made publicly known that our messages are not private. Otherwise, that is a serious violation of privacy.
Mods have access to PMs. I think its more if there are conversations against forum rules they do intervene. I dont think they do it immediately though. I'd add to the rules to put " PMs are monitored if staff feels there is a breach in the rules."

It reminded me of an issue in the US. Security guards were watching people in public restrooms since we have warnings against shoplifting on the walls. It didn't go well with the guards who were fined. In my state they changed that law and have cameras by the entrance instead.

This is the first time I came across monitored PMs. A lot of times PMS should be used as safe havens for non illegal conversation we can't discuss in the forums. Gives people the freedom to be human. That and some other sites I notice some people know each other in person. Maybe it could be added since pm are monitored reframe from giving personal (legal) information. Of couse, being online is already a hazard.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:45 pm

Carlita wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm

Mods have access to PMs.
Read the thread properly. They don't. ;)
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:55 pm

Carlita wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm
Mods have access to PMs.
No we don't. Not unless somebody reports a private message (ie makes it visible to moderators) so we can deal with it. Otherwise, we cannot see people's private messages.

Now if you do not believe what we are saying, well that is a different story.

If you do not trust us, then don't send private messages.
This is the first time I came across monitored PMs.
You have not come across monitored PMs here, except maybe in your wildest most paranoid fantasies.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by DNS » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:01 pm

Carlita wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm
Mods have access to PMs.
No, they don't, read the whole thread, including my post. Any forum has the potential to read the PMs, but in all cases it can only be done so by accessing that part of the server. It is not in the forum, directly, it is not accessible by any moderator or admin that way. It can only be obtained by accessing that part of the server. For that, you need the server ID and server password and the only one who has that password is our webmaster and I. And I can assure you, we have no interest in looking at the tens of thousands of PMs.

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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Carlita » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:10 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:45 pm
Carlita wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm

Mods have access to PMs.
Read the thread properly. They don't. ;)
Personal experience
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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Carlita
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Re: Do Admins/Mods have access to read our PMs?

Post by Carlita » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:16 pm

I said

They probably don't do it automatically

I also mentioned that maybe in the rules it could say if there is a breach in the rules, staff may monitor PMS. Its advice based on personal experience. It a was not negative but advice nonetheless.
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:55 pm
Carlita wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm
Mods have access to PMs.
No we don't. Not unless somebody reports a private message (ie makes it visible to moderators) so we can deal with it. Otherwise, we cannot see people's private messages.

Now if you do not believe what we are saying, well that is a different story.

If you do not trust us, then don't send private messages.
This is the first time I came across monitored PMs.
You have not come across monitored PMs here, except maybe in your wildest most paranoid fantasies.
How can you report a pm if the person the person reports to can't read the pm to make sure the report is substantiated?

It is constructive critizm and advice

Not negative in nature.
[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra
:anjali:

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