Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

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kalden yungdrung
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Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm

Tashi delek,

IMO to discuss politics here aboard is not at all a good case.

Dharma
and
left and right winged, (is the middle way here possible ?)
based on discrimination,
illusions and political preferences

are not at all Dharma orientated, whereas i understand that they belong to Dharma in the sense of phenomenons or emptiness.

Therefore i want to suggest to forbid political discussions here aboard and discuss only Buddha Dharma matters, which go beyond politics, left and right winged idiots and the middle.

Maybe new TOS possible ? :applause:

KY
The best meditation is no meditation

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Mantrik
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Mantrik » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:48 pm

Those discussions are clearly in a separate sub-forum and ToS already preclude such discussions creeping into Dharma topics, where they are at the very least 'off topic'.

There are several people whose views I value on DW and it is interesting to know their views on wordly matters as well as Dharma.

It is also the case that discussion of politics enables us to consider our own thoughts as they relate to Dharma.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Simon E.
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Simon E. » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:52 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:48 pm
Those discussions are clearly in a separate sub-forum and ToS already preclude such discussions creeping into Dharma topics, where they are at the very least 'off topic'.

There are several people whose views I value on DW and it is interesting to know their views on wordly matters as well as Dharma.

It is also the case that discussion of politics enables us to consider our own thoughts as they relate to Dharma.
Hear hear. There are not two spheres marked 'Dharma' and 'Everything Else'.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Matt J
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Matt J » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:53 pm

It is clearly dharma oriented. Politicians and policies impact untold numbers of sentient beings. If anything, we need more "engaged Buddhism" active and helping in the world.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm
Tashi delek,

IMO to discuss politics here aboard is not at all a good case.

Dharma
and
left and right winged, (is the middle way here possible ?)
based on discrimination,
illusions and political preferences

are not at all Dharma orientated, whereas i understand that they belong to Dharma in the sense of phenomenons or emptiness.

Therefore i want to suggest to forbid political discussions here aboard and discuss only Buddha Dharma matters, which go beyond politics, left and right winged idiots and the middle.

Maybe new TOS possible ? :applause:

KY
The Great Way is not difficult
If only there is no picking or choosing
--- Xin Xin Ming

shaunc
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by shaunc » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:33 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm
Tashi delek,

IMO to discuss politics here aboard is not at all a good case.

Dharma
and
left and right winged, (is the middle way here possible ?)
based on discrimination,
illusions and political preferences

are not at all Dharma orientated, whereas i understand that they belong to Dharma in the sense of phenomenons or emptiness.

Therefore i want to suggest to forbid political discussions here aboard and discuss only Buddha Dharma matters, which go beyond politics, left and right winged idiots and the middle.

Maybe new TOS possible ? :applause:

KY
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't think it'll ever happen here though. I just tend to ignore the conversation once it gets too political for me.

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Malcolm
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:36 pm

shaunc wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:33 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm
Tashi delek,

IMO to discuss politics here aboard is not at all a good case.

Dharma
and
left and right winged, (is the middle way here possible ?)
based on discrimination,
illusions and political preferences

are not at all Dharma orientated, whereas i understand that they belong to Dharma in the sense of phenomenons or emptiness.

Therefore i want to suggest to forbid political discussions here aboard and discuss only Buddha Dharma matters, which go beyond politics, left and right winged idiots and the middle.

Maybe new TOS possible ? :applause:

KY
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't think it'll ever happen here though. I just tend to ignore the conversation once it gets too political for me.
as Shantideva points out, it is better to wear shoes than to try and cover the world in leather.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

boda
Posts: 1849
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by boda » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:04 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:36 pm
shaunc wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:33 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm
Tashi delek,

IMO to discuss politics here aboard is not at all a good case.

Dharma
and
left and right winged, (is the middle way here possible ?)
based on discrimination,
illusions and political preferences

are not at all Dharma orientated, whereas i understand that they belong to Dharma in the sense of phenomenons or emptiness.

Therefore i want to suggest to forbid political discussions here aboard and discuss only Buddha Dharma matters, which go beyond politics, left and right winged idiots and the middle.

Maybe new TOS possible ? :applause:

KY
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't think it'll ever happen here though. I just tend to ignore the conversation once it gets too political for me.
as Shantideva points out, it is better to wear shoes than to try and cover the world in leather.
Nice idiom. Shantideva?

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Monlam Tharchin
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Location: Oregon

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:49 am

For what it's worth, I now avoid all political discussions on DW after many bad experiences.
I saw enough tempers flaring, name-calling, and so on to come to the same conclusion as kalden yungdrung.
Whatever the intentions of the posters, what I saw didn't often look like engaged Buddhism or bringing the Dharma to daily life.
What I saw was plain old forum flame wars with largely liberal voices dominating the conversation.

Absolutely bring your practice to every facet of daily life. Whether political threads on DW are helpful for that, they certainly weren't for me.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:53 am

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:49 am
For what it's worth, I now avoid all political discussions on DW after many bad experiences.
I saw enough tempers flaring, name-calling, and so on to come to the same conclusion as kalden yungdrung.
Whatever the intentions of the posters, what I saw didn't often look like engaged Buddhism or bringing the Dharma to daily life.
What I saw was plain old forum flame wars with largely liberal voices dominating the conversation.

Absolutely bring your practice to every facet of daily life. Whether political threads on DW are helpful for that, they certainly weren't for me.
Tashi delek MT,

Agree 108% with your point of view, regarding dirty politics and discussing that on Dharma Wheel.

Politics are based on dirty games, fake news, rumors and more alike.
To get in touch with dirty things, causes dirty outcomes .
It is not so beneficial to be engaged in dirty things as a Dharma practitioner.

For instance a Dharma practitioner should also avoid looking at violent movies, it´s not good for the mind, my teachers told me.
Same beat for politics , which are here discussed to the bones, it causes a bad feeling during and after the discussion.

Then others here aboard gives or push certain private political opinions as valid and that causes also a certain strange feeling.

Everybody can be convinced about left, right and the middle political convictions, but then please outside Dharma Wheel at the polling station.

Again i realy would ask the head administrator to ban politics here aboard at Dharma Wheel, a place to discuss the precious Buddha Dharma and not dirty illusion, called politics.
The best meditation is no meditation

Simon E.
Posts: 5353
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:44 am

And I would request that your request is ignored.
We do not live in isolated safe space ghettos.
We live in the dirty, beautiful, world of conventional reality..

If you don't like a thread don't read it.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Mantrik
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Mantrik » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:28 am

Simon E. wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:44 am
And I would request that your request is ignored.
We do not live in isolated safe space ghettos.
We live in the dirty, beautiful, world of conventional reality..

If you don't like a thread don't read it.
I detect a 'snowflake' mentality at work in the OP's request, much like the sensitive souls at our universities :
Let's hide from things which are emotionally challenging.
Let's pretend Dharma is for the cushion and treat Dharmawheel as a 'safe space', where we ban controversial speech.
Above all, let's not integrate Dharma into daily life in case it is upsetting and challenging.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Norwegian
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Norwegian » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:30 am

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:28 am
Simon E. wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:44 am
And I would request that your request is ignored.
We do not live in isolated safe space ghettos.
We live in the dirty, beautiful, world of conventional reality..

If you don't like a thread don't read it.
I detect a 'snowflake' mentality at work in the OP's request, much like the sensitive souls at our universities :
Let's hide from things which are emotionally challenging.
Let's pretend Dharma is for the cushion and treat Dharmawheel as a 'safe space', where we ban controversial speech.
Above all, let's not integrate Dharma into daily life in case it is upsetting and challenging.
It is 100% snowflake mentality. Ban and forbid everything you disagree with, and are 'offended' by. That kind of mentality is worse than political discussions (or any kind of discussion), because it seeks to shut down discussion.
Last edited by Norwegian on Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Simon E.
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:55 am

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:28 am
Simon E. wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:44 am
And I would request that your request is ignored.
We do not live in isolated safe space ghettos.
We live in the dirty, beautiful, world of conventional reality..

If you don't like a thread don't read it.
I detect a 'snowflake' mentality at work in the OP's request, much like the sensitive souls at our universities :
Let's hide from things which are emotionally challenging.
Let's pretend Dharma is for the cushion and treat Dharmawheel as a 'safe space', where we ban controversial speech.
Above all, let's not integrate Dharma into daily life in case it is upsetting and challenging.
Aye.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Jeff H » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:24 pm

boda wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:04 am
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:36 pm
shaunc wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:33 pm
... I just tend to ignore the conversation once it gets too political for me.
as Shantideva points out, it is better to wear shoes than to try and cover the world in leather.
Nice idiom. Shantideva?
Chapter 5:13
Shantideva wrote: 12. Harmful beings are everywhere like space itself.
Impossible it is that all should be suppressed.
But let this angry mind alone be overthrown,
And it’s as though all foes had been subdued.

13. To cover all the earth with sheets of leather—
Where could such amounts of skin be found?
But with the leather soles of just my shoes
It is as though I cover all the earth!
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm

Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:14 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.

As Shantideva points out in chapter 5:
Shantideva wrote:48.When the urge arises in your mind
To feelings of desire or angry hate,
Do not act! Be silent, do not speak!
And like a log of wood be sure to stay.

49.And when your mind is wild or filled with mockery,
Or filled with pride and haughty arrogance,
Or when you would expose another’s secret guilt,
To bring up old dissensions or to act deceitfully,

50.Or when you want to fish for praise,
Or criticize and spoil another’s name,
Or use harsh language, sparring for a fight,
It’s then that like a log you should remain.
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Norwegian
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Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Norwegian » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:16 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.
"Input" in the form of wanting to shut down others and ban discussion on a very important aspect of human society (politics) is not genuine nor is it worth respecting.

Simon E.
Posts: 5353
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:37 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:16 pm
Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.
"Input" in the form of wanting to shut down others and ban discussion on a very important aspect of human society (politics) is not genuine nor is it worth respecting.
This.

:good:
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Simon E.
Posts: 5353
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.
I did not meet the suggestion with derision.
As far as I am aware neither did anyone else.
I did meet the suggestion with a good deal of indignation at the idea that anyone would attempt to dictate what other adults can discuss on a public forum however..for which I make no apologies.
I find the idea highly offensive.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel

Post by Malcolm » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:23 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem :shrug:
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.
KY is just mad because his anti-muslim alt-right agit-prop was shut down.

Had the board a moratorium on political speech from the start, this would be one thing —— but DNS did not set that up. He followed E-Sangha's liberal policies towards speech.

If this board took a turn toward the illiberalism KY is advocating, I would abandon it in a second. So, to those who don't like political speech, my advice is that they should not read it.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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