Grigoris wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:45 pm
Do you know many people that have had insight into the dependently originated nature of phenomena because they have died of cancer(for example)?
So where is the guarantee (where is your proof) that a long and tortuous death is better (or more beneficial) than a quick one by one's-own-hand?
kausalya wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:49 am
well wisher wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:34 pm
kausalya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:28 pm
We have the illusion that more time grants more opportunities. In reality, the true opportunities arise because of previously-developed karmic potentials, and nothing else. The rest is just maya.
Thanks for the responses. Looks like "I" will need more practices & experience to realize these points further about the intrinsic illusionary nature about time and opportunities then.
The only reason I doubt your sincerity is that I have no way of knowing whether or not I chose words appropriate for your situation. Above all, I mean you no harm (rabid control-freak that I am).
Thinking further about "Do you know many people that have had insight into the dependently originated nature of phenomena because they have died of cancer(for example)?" - No, sorry I do not have any clear answer.
But an different very optimistic response might be: A person does not need to suicide or die at all to realize "dependently originated nature of phenomena".
Because One can get a glimpse of this at any single moment, at least on more basic surface levels, through simple logical inquiring or even observation in nature.
Such as:
- How does a person even "see" a ray of light? If you separate out the light and the eye as independent, wouldn't that make them intrinsically empty and useless?
- If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? Yes if someone with ears hear it. Otherwise no.
- If one separate out the "life" and "death" as independent phenomenon, in discussing "life-to-death" as in one lifecycle, wouldn't it break this cycle at least in the conceptual sense? But also make both "life" and "death" meaningless?
So putting aside the time aspect discussion, the other big unknown (or "danger") with the death-gate, in the cycles of life and death on topics of rebirths and reincarnation, is the "memory wipe" on the start of a human life.
(For example, Malcolm in another post on this forum explained one possibility might be due to the trauma of birth).
I cannot even consciously clearly recall any of my past lives!
So theoretically speaking, if I cannot even recall any of my past life's mistakes, then wouldn't repeating this cycle of life and death as utterly meaningless folly, if I am doomed to repeat the same painful mistakes? Guessing no, because sometimes there are some deeper forces I am not consciously aware of to commit horribly bad actions, such as intentional murder. Also perhaps there are even more deeper impactful lessons to come, going beyond conscious levels, whether it is painful or pleasant or whatever.
Examples of pains: Deep painful physical trauma, such as very painful physical injuries like sprained ankles and legs, which eventually faded & healed make it seem illusion like a dream.
Also: deep psychological trauma about parents' divorce, bickering arguments, job loss, and death of family members.
All these trauma makes the younger me think that life is just a chain of pointless sufferings: And I think maybe all these traumatic lessons will teach the folly of reincarnating further in Samsaric life.
But that is not all true, as there are still enjoyable hobbies that bring happiness (eg. Buddhist temple volunteer work/meditations/eating/jogging/bicycling/video games), albeit all temporarily that all fade away too like a dream.
....etc.... ~ Ok, I am sorry about these cyclic points I made, stopping it there.
All conditioned phenomena
Are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow,
Like dew or a flash of lightning;
Thus we shall perceive them
- Diamond Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha
So thinking about this further, Gigoris has a made wise point about: "where is the guarantee (where is your proof) that a long and tortuous death is better (or more beneficial) than a quick one by one's-own-hand?".
Death is Death, no matter how different the circumstances of individual deaths may seen.
Anyways, I also agree with kausalya about the no harm, in general.
I meant no one any intentional harm in this post: not to encourage any further suicide or death-seekers, nor any further obsessive-attachment-clinging to life, I swear.
Feel free to call me a literal wishy-washy guessing fool
Wishing all sentient beings the quick attainment of Full Enlightment & Nirvana & Buddhahood, and never suffer again
Bowing out ~ well wisher