Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg »

Thanks, Greg.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris »

Right. I finished the author's introduction and took notes.

Since, I imagine, most people will skip the author's intro and go straight to Chapter One, should we do the general intro to the dhatu (p203-207) and the threefold classification? That is up to p228. This would include BB4: Ten sense spheres and ten elements and aggregates of material form? Get the Rupa element of the skandha out of the way.

I think four pages is really too little, as the pages are very small.

Unless we are all reading the author's intro too?

Yes, include Rupa.

No, just the general intro to the dhatu.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Are those page numbers for the Pruden or the Sangpo translation?
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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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jake wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:59 pm Are those page numbers for the Pruden or the Sangpo translation?
Sangpo. Basically it is the Pruden introduction and the first section of the first chapter on dhatu. The section on rupa skandha.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by jake »

Grigoris wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:11 pm
jake wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:59 pm Are those page numbers for the Pruden or the Sangpo translation?
Sangpo. Basically it is the Pruden introduction and the first section of the first chapter on dhatu. The section on rupa skandha.
Okay, I'm game for the revised milestone. Does everyone have the Sangpo translation? I'd be happy to read either version (but admit to finding the numerous font types a touch confusing in Sangpo).
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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris »

queequeg wrote:...
PeterC wrote:...
zerwe wrote:...
What do you think about my recommendation people?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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PeterC
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by PeterC »

Grigoris wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:20 am
queequeg wrote:...
PeterC wrote:...
zerwe wrote:...
What do you think about my recommendation people?
In
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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Sorry - I saw the page numbers in the 200s and got confused. Was meaning to look at the text (Pruden) and figure out what you were proposing. Now I understand. So Greg is proposing Chapter One - from the intro up through the Rupa Skandha section.

In Pruden that's pp. 55-66.

That seems reasonable. I'd hesitate to go more than that because I imagine there is a lot to unpack even in just those few pages.

Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by jake »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:17 pm Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.
Sangpo has essentially three introductions before starting the text which adds to it's length. The Kosa proper doesn't begin until page 203 in the Sangpo. I've been reading Pruden but started on Sangpo last night, still adjusting to the text as it uses a lot of fonts, etc. so the layout is a bit odd for me at present.
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:17 pm Sorry - I saw the page numbers in the 200s and got confused. Was meaning to look at the text (Pruden) and figure out what you were proposing. Now I understand. So Greg is proposing Chapter One - from the intro up through the Rupa Skandha section.

In Pruden that's pp. 55-66.

That seems reasonable. I'd hesitate to go more than that because I imagine there is a lot to unpack even in just those few pages.

Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.
People really need to integrate what Vasubandhu has to say about prajñā. So by way of topics for reflection:

What is the distinction between non-afflicted ignorance and afflictive ignorance?
Why does this matter?
Reflect on the meaning of prajñā.
What is the distinction between pure and impure prajñā?
Why can impure dharmas only be extinguished by prajñā?

The first three verses should be well anchored before continuing on to verse four. These three verses should serve as the basis for further discussion before moving on to verse 4, etc.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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jake wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:52 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:17 pm Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.
Sangpo has essentially three introductions before starting the text which adds to it's length. The Kosa proper doesn't begin until page 203 in the Sangpo. I've been reading Pruden but started on Sangpo last night, still adjusting to the text as it uses a lot of fonts, etc. so the layout is a bit odd for me at present.
Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
Malcolm
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:00 pm
jake wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:52 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:17 pm Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.
Sangpo has essentially three introductions before starting the text which adds to it's length. The Kosa proper doesn't begin until page 203 in the Sangpo. I've been reading Pruden but started on Sangpo last night, still adjusting to the text as it uses a lot of fonts, etc. so the layout is a bit odd for me at present.
Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.
The footnotes are largely a distraction to the text. They are relevant mainly for scholars, but not practitioners.
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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:00 pm Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.
I despise endnotes. Ab-so-lutely despise them. I LOVE footnotes and I agree, all the good bits are in footnotes. Sangpo used endnotes but has added section headings and does a lot with different font sizes, italics, etc. I've not yet done a full line-by-line but I think this accounts for the majority of the difference in length. My physical copy of Pruden is in storage so I'm now leaning towards reading Sangpo just because it's easier on the eyes. Need new glasses but COVID, so....

I was able to pick up my copy for about 165. I have a feeling that you're like me, a bit of a book collector so you probably already know what level of quality to expect from a book printed in India. Later today I'll scan a couple pages so you can see a side-by-side comparison. Maybe that will help other readers decide which edition to pick up.
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Side-by-side Pruden Sangpo.jpg
Side-by-side Pruden Sangpo.jpg (324.88 KiB) Viewed 687 times
*I think I highlighted the correct corresponding passages.
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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Grigoris »

Do we need a new sub forum for the dicsussion?

This adventure is going to last a couple of years, so it might be a good idea, so that the discussion is not lost among other topics.

An admin needs to do that.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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jake
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Sangpo mentions an "Electronic Appendix" in his intro. I was unable to find anything using the link provided in the text but I did find this, I believe it is one in the same:

https://www.kccl.ca/resources-of-the-ab ... 1%b9%a3ya/

NVM: it links back to the broken website. If anyone finds an active version, please let me know.
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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I'm in favor of a new sub but only have my maybe ocd concern about having too many subs on the board. Maybe a sub in this sub so there isn't too much fuss with permissions? I don't know much about the software admin issues.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:00 pm
jake wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:52 pm

Sangpo has essentially three introductions before starting the text which adds to it's length. The Kosa proper doesn't begin until page 203 in the Sangpo. I've been reading Pruden but started on Sangpo last night, still adjusting to the text as it uses a lot of fonts, etc. so the layout is a bit odd for me at present.
Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.
The footnotes are largely a distraction to the text. They are relevant mainly for scholars, but not practitioners.
You might find yourself leaned on as an interactive footnote generator. :) よろしくおねがいいたします。
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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Grigoris
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:16 pm I'm in favor of a new sub but only have my maybe ocd concern about having too many subs on the board. Maybe a sub in this sub so there isn't too much fuss with permissions? I don't know much about the software admin issues.
It is the same amount of work.

Maybe the new sub-forum should be under the Academic Discussion sub-forum.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Queequeg
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Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club

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Grigoris wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:24 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:16 pm I'm in favor of a new sub but only have my maybe ocd concern about having too many subs on the board. Maybe a sub in this sub so there isn't too much fuss with permissions? I don't know much about the software admin issues.
It is the same amount of work.

Maybe the new sub-forum should be under the Academic Discussion sub-forum.
Got it.

Not in favor of the academic sub because as Malcolm touched on above, we're not reading the text as an academic endeavor are we? I'd like to frame the reading as practice even maybe include a verse dedicating the merit at the start? That last part is just a spontaneous thought now. It would add some solemnity to this and bring it formally into the realm of practice.

Maybe a book club sub would be the appropriate thing to do?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
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