When the Earth is a Cinder

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:48 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Queequeg wrote:Mars colonization is a pipe dream.
In all seriousness, I think that if we knew how to repair our atmosphere we'd be farther along in knowing how to catalyse the Martian atmosphere into something bearable, create self-sustaining "biodome" habitat systems, and grow crops underground.

If you don't think that these issues can be solved with engineering and research, it's time for everyone to unplug everything, quit going to work and start fasting. Get off that train, man. Your productivity is raping mother Earth.
This. When my son was born, in my idle moments I would think about the greatest contribution he might make... Maybe the way Shuddhodana looked at Gautama and thought, "he could be a cakravartin or Buddha..." Except my two ideas were, inventor of an atmosphere stabilizing machine or a scholar-yogi who pacifies the warring religious factions of the world... Inventor seems more practical. I'm doing what I can to push him in that direction... Maybe he'll rebel and do what's even more difficult.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by joy&peace » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:03 pm

Indeed. It also seems about time to put up some shade screens.

Even so, it would not change the importance of adjusting - radically - our habits in terms of the ecology.

As in, it would be helpful, and indeed a solution - if and only if a balance is achieved.

Touching briefly on the issue, exponential population growth - 200,000 more people in the world each day.

And other factors, primarily destruction of forests, and the causes, are not sustainable in the long run, and must be changed.

Sooner, the better, that is - less destruction.

About sunshades:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

The Artis Magistra
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by The Artis Magistra » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:21 pm

I haven't read much of what is in this thread, but I am responding to the title of this thread and this is the lounge, so I hope you don't mind terribly.

I don't think there is anything to really fear regarding the Earth being destroyed, it will be destroyed when it is time for it to be destroyed and no more and no less than that.

The fear is useful though in some ways as it keeps people doing whatever they do so that the Earth will be destroyed when scheduled without any delay.

You also will not fail in anything or have your journey cut short, you will complete everything.

I hope that might offer some relief possibly, but it tends to annoy people as well sometimes.

So I'm not worried too much about this whole cinder thing.

In Mahayana Buddhism, we are being looked out for, this is not just craziness or it would not have even gotten this far if "anything bad that can happen will happen". No, not at all.

We are safe, existing in a structure that is maintained and controlled (this is a Mahayana and Vajrayana forum).

If this world is eliminated, and another is sought, it is not difficult to produce another world and inhabit it or view it as if we are within such.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:28 pm

I'm not sure about space sunscreens.

For a sufficiently large screen they need approximately 16 million, 1 meter diameter disks. Imo the mining required for the materials and the fact that NASA predict it'll need hundreds of rockets, the environmental damage far outweighs the cooling effect (ignoring how much rocket fuel heats the atmosphere).
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:09 pm

Lobsang Chojor wrote:I'm not sure about space sunscreens.

For a sufficiently large screen they need approximately 16 million, 1 meter diameter disks. Imo the mining required for the materials and the fact that NASA predict it'll need hundreds of rockets, the environmental damage far outweighs the cooling effect (ignoring how much rocket fuel heats the atmosphere).
Geo-engineering should be a last resort. For one reason: if we were smart enough to manage the environmental balance we wouldn't need to do it, and if we're not smart enough, we can't be trusted to do it.

:namaste:
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by joy&peace » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:00 pm

Optimal Sunshade Configurations for Space-Based Geoengineering near the Sun-Earth L1 Point

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0136648
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:48 pm

The Artis Magistra wrote:I haven't read much of what is in this thread, but I am responding to the title of this thread and this is the lounge, so I hope you don't mind terribly.

I don't think there is anything to really fear regarding the Earth being destroyed, it will be destroyed when it is time for it to be destroyed and no more and no less than that.

The fear is useful though in some ways as it keeps people doing whatever they do so that the Earth will be destroyed when scheduled without any delay.

You also will not fail in anything or have your journey cut short, you will complete everything.

I hope that might offer some relief possibly, but it tends to annoy people as well sometimes.

So I'm not worried too much about this whole cinder thing.

In Mahayana Buddhism, we are being looked out for, this is not just craziness or it would not have even gotten this far if "anything bad that can happen will happen". No, not at all.

We are safe, existing in a structure that is maintained and controlled (this is a Mahayana and Vajrayana forum).

If this world is eliminated, and another is sought, it is not difficult to produce another world and inhabit it or view it as if we are within such.
Well, I'm convinced! I'm going to stop going to work, stop paying my bills, stop everything - and just be. :meditate:
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:56 pm

joy&peace wrote: Touching briefly on the issue, exponential population growth - 200,000 more people in the world each day.
Of course! Its the population.

This seems to get lost in the discussion - the root cause is providing for the needs of so many people. I guess there is no short term remedy, so its treated as a given, but family planning should be at or near the top of any long term climate-change agenda.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

The Artis Magistra
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by The Artis Magistra » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 pm

Queequeg wrote:
The Artis Magistra wrote:I haven't read much of what is in this thread, but I am responding to the title of this thread and this is the lounge, so I hope you don't mind terribly.

I don't think there is anything to really fear regarding the Earth being destroyed, it will be destroyed when it is time for it to be destroyed and no more and no less than that.

The fear is useful though in some ways as it keeps people doing whatever they do so that the Earth will be destroyed when scheduled without any delay.

You also will not fail in anything or have your journey cut short, you will complete everything.
Well, I'm convinced! I'm going to stop going to work, stop paying my bills, stop everything - and just be. :meditate:
Haha, if you were not being sarcastic, it would be a very interesting conclusion to reach based on what I've written. I really wish you could do that, even though I never suggested anything like that at all. Just being is inclusive of those things or can be, all I was saying is that one needn't be concerned about the Earth being turned into a cinder or there somehow being a "cut short" session.

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:55 pm

Queequeg wrote: I guess there is no short term remedy, so its treated as a given, but family planning should be at or near the top of any long term climate-change agenda.
My dear departed father was an eminent professor of medicine, and one deeply involved in birth control plans in the 1960's for India. He was pessimistic by nature, but doubly so in regards to the forthcoming population explosion. Indeed had he been still around - he died early 90's - he would have been amazed, I think, by the turn things have taken in India, with the growth of middle-class occupations.

But I fear he (and Thomas Malthus) will be right in the long run - I think there will catastrophes resulting from over-populatio - perhaps the vast numbers seeking refuge in Europe are already a sign of that. Some of the articles linked to the one in the OP predict that Bangladesh will become uninhabitable in the near future. It's a scary world.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:04 pm

The Artis Magistra wrote: Haha, if you were not being sarcastic, it would be a very interesting conclusion to reach based on what I've written. I really wish you could do that, even though I never suggested anything like that at all. Just being is inclusive of those things or can be, all I was saying is that one needn't be concerned about the Earth being turned into a cinder or there somehow being a "cut short" session.
Oh, I'm not sarcastic. I told my boss to take this job and shove it, and walked out. It was quite empowering. I don't know what I'll tell the wife, but hey, I'm trusting in the Mahayana and will just let the chips fall. See my signature below?

Seriously, climate change is something that we can do something about, just as much as going to work and paying bills, and "being". I don't know if you're just opining without having read any of the posts in this thread or what, but just :shrug: and not making any effort to address our behaviors to check and hopefully reverse the adverse human impact is utterly umreasonable. A 'cut short' that can be avoided may well be in the cards. It would be a shame if we just followed your counsel and let the session get cut short.

Then again...
In sha'Allah.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Sherab
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Sherab » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:55 pm

Here's a climate system scientist's (Paul Beckwith, University of Ottawa, Labratory for paleo-climatology) detailed defence of the article:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYODQlyuStg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAoHvCTjbX8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF9Iu0TQY_I

A group of my friends and I were once chatting about what would cause the population of people on earth to be drastically reduced. Nuclear war, water shortage, food shortage, pandemics etc. were suggested. I personally was of the opinion that a pandemic would be the most probable culprit.

Now, I think climate change would be it. Climate change could create the perfect conditions that would bring into play most if not all the factors that would cause a drastic reduction in human population : wars over scarce water resources, mass migrations from various parts of the world as climate change makes those places uninhabitable, food scarcity as climate change destroys the major agricultural lands, flooding of coastal areas from rapidly rising sea levels, increase destructive power of hurricanes and tornadoes, epidemics and pandemics brought about by climate change, etc.

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by The Cicada » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:17 am

Queequeg wrote:Maybe he'll rebel and do what's even more difficult.
I kind of assumed your son would rebel by becoming a jock. Mine are all girls so far, so I just assumed they would give me grandkids. No indications otherwise so far.
Sherab wrote: Now, I think climate change would be it. Climate change could create the perfect conditions that would bring into play most if not all the factors that would cause a drastic reduction in human population : wars over scarce water resources, mass migrations from various parts of the world as climate change makes those places uninhabitable, food scarcity as climate change destroys the major agricultural lands, flooding of coastal areas from rapidly rising sea levels, increase destructive power of hurricanes and tornadoes, epidemics and pandemics brought about by climate change, etc.
This is essentially the conclusion I came to as well, though I do think there are things that can still be done to prevent the worst. I don't imagine we'll actually leave the world uninhabitable for humanity, just much less hospitable for future generations—and much hotter.

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by joy&peace » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:07 am

Yes indeed.

It is not too late, but the situation is very serious.

The key solution is along the lines of spreading awareness -

http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org

Is a very good site.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by The Cicada » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:45 am

joy&peace wrote: The key solution is along the lines of spreading awareness -
Not to be sarcastic here beyond what is amusing, appropriate, and polite, but at the end of 2011 I filled my Facebook feed with apocalyptic portends of the approaching end of the world the coming year. On New Year's day of 2012, I declared that I had stopped the Mayan apocalypse by spreading awareness.

We're all still here. No thanks are required.
And that's where it gets sticky. To skip a whole controversial (for the site) rant that ends in "and that's one of many reasons that I voted for Donald Trump," suffice it to say, friend, that what's being presented on that site is the sort of thing that only works when everyone is on board. Otherwise, it just doesn't.

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by The Artis Magistra » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:55 am

Queequeg wrote:
The Artis Magistra wrote: Haha, if you were not being sarcastic, it would be a very interesting conclusion to reach based on what I've written. I really wish you could do that, even though I never suggested anything like that at all. Just being is inclusive of those things or can be, all I was saying is that one needn't be concerned about the Earth being turned into a cinder or there somehow being a "cut short" session.
Oh, I'm not sarcastic. I told my boss to take this job and shove it, and walked out. It was quite empowering. I don't know what I'll tell the wife, but hey, I'm trusting in the Mahayana and will just let the chips fall. See my signature below?

Seriously, climate change is something that we can do something about, just as much as going to work and paying bills, and "being". I don't know if you're just opining without having read any of the posts in this thread or what, but just :shrug: and not making any effort to address our behaviors to check and hopefully reverse the adverse human impact is utterly umreasonable. A 'cut short' that can be avoided may well be in the cards. It would be a shame if we just followed your counsel and let the session get cut short.

Then again...
In sha'Allah.
I don't understand what you're reacting to or responding to really. Are you suggesting that I suggested not to do anything about climate change? All I was commenting on was that even if the Earth is turned to a cinder, it will not end the process of learning. Do you think that process is stopped by the destruction of the Earth?

What is this Insha'Allah thing about? Is it a reference to my posts elsewhere or anything? So you're telling me you really quit your job just now or are you lying about that? I'm ok either way, I'm just curious, because on the one hand you say you are not being sarcastic or anything but then you say "follow your counsel and let the session get cut short", when was that my advice?

I don't know what you read. You may want to read my post again or something.

1. This thread is called "When the Earth is a Cinder". 0. This is a Mahayana Forum. 2. I posted saying that even if the Earth is turned into a cinder, the cycle is not ended by that, or else that would've been the advice "turn the Earth into a cinder". I was only posting about Mahayana theology on a Mahayana forum. I don't know what you're posting about though if you really quit your job or not or what you are reacting to or trying to say to me. It was never my advice or counsel to "do nothing", I was talking about other things.

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:15 pm

The Artis Magistra wrote: I don't understand
There might be much you don't understand. Lighten up.

You jumped into the thread with a non responsive post about macro mythology and I've decided to have fun with you.

phpBB [video]


I kid, I kid. Joke. Joke.

Welcome to the discussion.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:47 pm

joy&peace wrote:
The key solution is along the lines of spreading awareness -

http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org
Won't your target audience will be people with internet access in the developed world where birth rates are dangerously low? (in some cases leading to population implosion!). BTW, I'm not suggesting paying lip service is wrong here, just that it's as negligible as breathing out hot air and carbon. At least we can have a lively debate and engage as responsible role models.

Now, the spread of awareness can entail apathy or 'ones lot in life' (which has been touched upon in this very thread) Yes, this can be an endemic mindset in some developing parts of the world. Instead we find active engagement via health organizations such as UniCEF or Doctors without Borders. This is sometimes in the form of contraception, immunization or education- so high birthrates and mortality rates are subsequently mitigated.

But that still doesn't cover the problem of less-than-ideal conditions, to put it mildly. It just makes life a bit more bearable. The bottom line is that the biological imperative is generally not overridden by standard logic. When it's cool enough to think about family planning the world isn't inhospitable enough.

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by joy&peace » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:53 pm

Hello DharmaN00b.







No.

Target audience's are everyone.


Namaste.

Thank you for helping out. (And not discouraging.)

;)

Have a blessed day.



If I seem abrupt, curt, or short -- please forgive me. I am still recovering over the death of my loved one -- as well as several pets - cat, kitten and dogs.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:50 pm

Dear joy&peace,

I've read a lot of your posts in the past but you wouldn't know that since I'm new here. My impressions are that you are hyper nice. I also don't mind a no nonsense approach so no worries how you express yourself from my perspective. May I offer you my condolences? :hug:

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