Various musings on no self

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White Lotus
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Various musings on no self

Post by White Lotus » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:51 pm

since all is empty there is no self. this can be useful to know.
the problem is false self or ego. certain things make us think we are real people.
feelings of self are all false self, even the personal feeling of being consciousness is false self,
so we need to renounce these layers of false identity in order to realise that there is no self.
not only feelings but also thoughts and concepts are usually concerned with this: i am this or i am that
or i want to be... actually when we know who this is with all these desires, fears and stories we know
that there is nobody.sthat all these desires, fears and stories are actually all ego... false self.
when we know that we are no one, that we are emptiness, not even consciousness then we
know that no one is enlightened. this ''no one'' has nothing to attain, nor has there ever been someone
to attain anything. the false self (i am) tells ''you'' (ego) that you must attain something called enlightenment.
there is no enlightenment, nor anyone to be enlightened. when you know this you realize there is no abiding in
anything. hope this is helpful.

best wishes, Tom. :smile:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

godhead
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Re: no self

Post by godhead » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:33 am

If no one is enlightened then it also concludes that there is no BUDDHA also.
And this is a fact that Buddhas do exist. So something is not clear.
"All my writing are my personal opinion unless otherwise specifically mentioned."

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Vasana
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Re: no self

Post by Vasana » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:24 am

godhead wrote:If no one is enlightened then it also concludes that there is no BUDDHA also.
And this is a fact that Buddhas do exist. So something is not clear.
Look in to the two truths. Things can appear to be true conventionally, but be otherwise so, ultimately.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

godhead
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Re: no self

Post by godhead » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:40 am

[*][quote="Vasana"
Look in to the two truths. Things can appear to be true conventionally, but be otherwise so, ultimately.[/quote]

The answer is not logical.
May be that enlightment has different meaning than undefstanding "No self" or being empty.
"All my writing are my personal opinion unless otherwise specifically mentioned."

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Vasana
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Re: no self

Post by Vasana » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:30 am

godhead wrote:
Vasana wrote: Look in to the two truths. Things can appear to be true conventionally, but be otherwise so, ultimately.
The answer is not logical.
May be that enlightment has different meaning than undefstanding "No self" or being empty.
What part isn't logical? A flower appears as a flower conventionally, yet when you examine the components that make the flower, no flower can be found.

The emptiness of self is one thing, the emptiness of phenomena is another. We need both. the selflessness of self and the selflessness of phenomena.

Applying that logic to your earlier statement....Where and how does a Buddha exist? For beings in Samsara, Buddhas appear...Yet where does a Buddha end and a being, begin?
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Saoshun
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Re: no self

Post by Saoshun » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:57 am

Without no realizing no self, all yours meditation and practices are in vain like pouring water into seedless earth. Anatta is not intellectual matter but deep realization, experience which can be tasted and directly seen as you see lost coin which matter to you or you heard "your" music track like "Ohh yes!" the experience is very intense.

No self is not something you talk about but realize by searching for the self which obviously not exists, between the feeling and perception there is no "I" your identity is based on experiences because of the idea of "I", the experience just flow and you are just asshole in those experiences in-between, if you just realize that there is no you there will be great peace and freedom and you will have drive license for meditation, otherwise you are just playing with conceptions without any experience.

:juggling:


First you realize no self, then you realize empty nature of yourself (you will feel like empty bag in the body, go thru that emptiness as Jesus would say "Even when I go through the darkest valley, I fear no danger, for You are with me") then you realize the light which appears after emptiness then you realize that light is the Self from Nirvana sutra, then you on the Path and ready for practice, without these realization there is no way of progression.


No master or so called buddhist teacher says you that, because blind follow the blind.

If no one is enlightened then it also concludes that there is no BUDDHA also.
And this is a fact that Buddhas do exist. So something is not clear.
Saying this you are ignorant ass who bark too much. You try to grasp concept intellectually and find concept to be identified with to judge others and world by it as you do by negating this, it's the same. You must realize it, walk thru it, approach with methods of insight then you will realize how foolish you were saying such things, otherwise you are just idiot playing around with words. :juggling:

Many people wish and believe that anatta is enlightenment. No it's just like cracking of the seed, it's still needs like whole a lot more to springs into enlightenment nature, mostly master barely touch 1 dhyana not even samadhi but well that the nature od dharma decline.

hop.pala
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Re: no self

Post by hop.pala » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:16 am

I think the anatta teaching misrepresentation or(and) false.We can speak rather about underconsciousness than anatta.The physical consciousness is the personality and the underconsciousness is the anatta.

godhead
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Re: no self

Post by godhead » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:32 am

It is easier to learn to juggle four balls in the hands.
But it is difficult to understood the meaning of your replies,
Well thanks.
"All my writing are my personal opinion unless otherwise specifically mentioned."

Saoshun
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Re: no self

Post by Saoshun » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:37 am

hop.pala wrote:I think the anatta teaching misrepresentation or(and) false.We can speak rather about underconsciousness than anatta.The physical consciousness is the personality and the underconsciousness is the anatta.
You are wrong, the moment you said "I think" - the way you think it's just results of ignorance. Go out, feel that you are on the enormous planet with endless sky, what there is to think about? Why do you think you foolish and silly ideas means anything to this world?

Only fools have courage to think something about the world.

muni
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Re: no self

Post by muni » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:48 pm

I forgot who said this, but it was about in order to wake up, there is a medicine needed of the same recognizable nature as our already illusory one. Other ways we cannot recognize. Even it is fabricated, it is not to reject but a jewel to use ( not to play), to see our illusion, to be free from our suffering.

Kick me with my ass in space and let me "myself" look down to earth, how can there be beings hopping around who possess a truth, comparing their truths? What truth?
:meditate:

hop.pala
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Re: no self

Post by hop.pala » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:35 pm

Saoshun wrote:
hop.pala wrote:I think the anatta teaching misrepresentation or(and) false.We can speak rather about underconsciousness than anatta.The physical consciousness is the personality and the underconsciousness is the anatta.
You are wrong, the moment you said "I think" - the way you think it's just results of ignorance.

No,no my friend.until i lead my body,and can think i have existence.Only the idiot buddhamind think that i am not.It is the case while the underconsciousness inspect himself,and can not do with the personality.My ignorance is for the underconsciousness.,

Saoshun
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Re: no self

Post by Saoshun » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:48 pm

hop.pala wrote:
Saoshun wrote:
hop.pala wrote:I think the anatta teaching misrepresentation or(and) false.We can speak rather about underconsciousness than anatta.The physical consciousness is the personality and the underconsciousness is the anatta.
You are wrong, the moment you said "I think" - the way you think it's just results of ignorance.

No,no my friend.until i lead my body,and can think i have existence.Only the idiot buddhamind think that i am not.It is the case while the underconsciousness inspect himself,and can not do with the personality.My ignorance is for the underconsciousness.,

Here is medicine for your ignorance, you are thinking that your ideas which are even not yours are important, that's the whole problem spiritual community have, they think what they think is important.
"Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how your should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
There is no such thing as underconciousness, whatever there is - it is not yours nor it's you. Your ideas about keeps you into samsara, drop them all and be free. Tilopa said it clearly, the problem is attachment, give up everything you think and know because all it's false and do not argue with that, it's truth, just look into it and you will see the moment you will see, all conceptual thinking collapse and you will see world the way it is.

hop.pala
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Re: Various musings on no self

Post by hop.pala » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:43 pm

idiot.I am master.Dont teach me.hahahah

Saoshun
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: Various musings on no self

Post by Saoshun » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:14 pm

hop.pala wrote:idiot.I am master.Dont teach me.hahahah
I wish that everybody become a master. :applause:

MrBlueSKY
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Re: Various musings on no self

Post by MrBlueSKY » Sat May 23, 2015 6:27 am

the best thing you can do is to throw away the question and throw away these answers. then rest.

joy&peace
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Various musings on no self

Post by joy&peace » Sat May 23, 2015 6:23 pm

peace and good health to all

joy and peace

dharma, and good health

in the shelter of dharma

peace,

and happiness to all

:anjali:

good health, respect, and kindness

to all beings.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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