Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Crazywisdom
Posts: 1725
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:53 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening

Nonsense. One of the most realised teachers I have ever met. a widely admired monk and yogi , loved detective novels.
Fox can't follow lion. Besides peoples anecdotal observations about this or that so-called highly realize individual don't hold a drop of water. Your vouching for whomever doesn't mean anything. And Buddha was clear about this point.
Last edited by Crazywisdom on Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:56 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening
Even Mad Max movies?
Yup
dang
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6351
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:57 pm

dzogchungpa wrote: dang
Some people can't grok the profundity of Thunderdome.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Simon E.
Posts: 5636
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Simon E. » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:02 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening

Nonsense. One of the most realised teachers I have ever met. a widely admired monk and yogi , loved detective novels.
Fox can't follow lion. Besides peoples anecdotal observations about this or that so-called highly realize individual don't hold a drop of water. Your vouching for whomever doesn't mean anything. And Buddha was clear about this point.
Thank you for your input.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

User avatar
maybay
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by maybay » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:47 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening
What about sex?
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

Lazy Monk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:46 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Lazy Monk » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:48 pm

Don't remember the source, but Dalai Lama once said something that seems to put an end to the debate about engaging in impurities as a way to transcend the attachment to purity. He said: one can enjoy the pleasure of sex if one also lacks aversion to eating feces.

Aware of emptiness and asubha bhavana. Explored darkness. Been there, done that. Mindfulness, however, will automatically transcend the duality of purity and impurity. Mindfulness is like a colonoscopy camera.

On the level of emotions I'm bored by decadence. And my ego really fracking hates boredom. Deeply and intensely. So when my pitiful and immature ego - which I love by the way, since it's empty - manages to trick my mind into seeking relief from the apparent monotony of meditation, then I prefer, on the primitive level of emotions, to read something that is inspiring :consoling:

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1725
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:57 pm

maybay wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening
What about sex?
Depends
I got my Chili Chilaya.

User avatar
maybay
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by maybay » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:11 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
maybay wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening
What about sex?
Depends
The absolute, the dependent, and the imagined. Well even entertainment is dependent.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:12 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
maybay wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:entertainment is completely incompatible with awakening
What about sex?
Depends
Like, on whether it's entertaining or not?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

boda
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:40 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by boda » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:31 pm

Kim wrote:And when you get some insights, put porn and horror movies on, doesn't make any difference to Moby Dick.
Yeah I think he just hates whalers.

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 3736
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:57 am

Ahem ... getting back to topic:
Lazy Monk wrote:It can be everything from science fiction and fantasy to drama and romance, preferably without violence. Inspiring but not addictive, if that's possible.
Since you start your list with SF and Fantasy and no-one has taken the hint:
(1) through (5) Ursula Le Guin - almost anything but especially Four Ways to Forgiveness, The Left Hand of Darkness and The Wizard of Earthsea (I know it's supposed to be for kids but read it anyway).
(6) - (10) ditto Terry Pratchett but especially Thief of Time, Small Gods, Reaper Man, Soul Music.
Then Neil Gaiman ... some of his work is more horror than fantasy but American Gods, Anansi Boys and The Ocean at the end of the Lane are all must-reads.
Zelazny Lord of Light, about a sort-of-Buddha taking on sort-of-Hindu-deities in another world.
William Gibson, ideally starting with Neuromancer.
Orson Scott Card is inconsistent. Enders Game and its first two sequels are great, but later books in the same series get trashier.

Most recent fantasy seems to be aimed at people with a reading age of 12 and an emotional age of 15 so I don't know it enough to recommend any of it but I enjoyed this one http://www.npr.org/2016/04/09/471619427 ... ng-fantasy and the review has suggestions for more of the same.

:reading: :reading: :reading: :reading:
Kim

Yudron
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Yudron » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:54 am

*cough*

:hi:

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 3736
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:53 am

Yudron wrote:*cough*

:hi:
Huh?

:idea:
Oh, we've got to look at your sig line!

:twothumbsup:

Lazy Monk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:46 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Lazy Monk » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:35 am

Back to off topic again:

"I'm enlightened, with all the right transmissions, so I can sell you anything."

"Really? Are you sure?"

"It's all good karma"

"Okay, then my sangha would like to order seven lines of coke, five bags of speed, and a bucket of shrooms for the old boys."

"Anything else?"

"It's Friday, so a few needles for bloodstream-entry."

"Wow, you guys are even more enlightened than I."

"Yes, everything got better when our Danish lama introduced us to the Crystal Way."

"Have heard of him. He's that short fellow with all the bling and the Black & Decker power tools, right?"

"Yes! ... so you know him?"

"Yes, he is the new trulku from Colombia."

"I know! Isn't that cool? He even found a terma down there, I've heard."

"The motherlode apparently."
Last edited by Lazy Monk on Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Simon E.
Posts: 5636
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:14 am

I'd certainly endorse The Earthsea Quartet. In the first volume a young man goes to wizard school. This was decades before Harry Potter and is far superior.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

MiphamFan
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by MiphamFan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 am

Lazy Monk wrote:Don't remember the source, but Dalai Lama once said something that seems to put an end to the debate about engaging in impurities as a way to transcend the attachment to purity. He said: one can enjoy the pleasure of sex if one also lacks aversion to eating feces.

Aware of emptiness and asubha bhavana. Explored darkness. Been there, done that. Mindfulness, however, will automatically transcend the duality of purity and impurity. Mindfulness is like a colonoscopy camera.

On the level of emotions I'm bored by decadence. And my ego really fracking hates boredom. Deeply and intensely. So when my pitiful and immature ego - which I love by the way, since it's empty - manages to trick my mind into seeking relief from the apparent monotony of meditation, then I prefer, on the primitive level of emotions, to read something that is inspiring :consoling:
He means for monks.

For non-monastics sex is hardly forbidden. Sexual misconduct is bad of course.

Simon E.
Posts: 5636
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:53 am

It's not forbidden for lay practitioners. Neither is it in itself 'unclean'.
The Vajrayana is not a vehicle for puritanism.
Sex is 'allowed'. reading is 'allowed' , music is 'allowed' good food is 'allowed'.art appreciation is 'allowed', the theatre and movies are 'allowed'.Good pinot noir is 'allowed' .
It's a matter of judgement for the individual student. If right now any of the above cloud YOUR awareness then put them aside. But don't assume that they have the same affect on others.

'The first requirement is that we become functioning adults' ...
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1150
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Anders » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:04 am

I recently read "Mythago Wood" and enjoyed it a lot.

It's a half-fantasy sort of story, as it is about modern people entering 'mythlands' of our earth and plays a lot on themes of the shamanic role of consciousness and the non-linearity of time in 'mythic' experiences.

Definitely made me think twice about my perception of classical myths. And a good story on top.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

Lazy Monk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:46 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Lazy Monk » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:14 am

As far as I can remember, the Dalai Lama talked about anyone who seriously put in the right effort to realise nibbana, not only monks, but also yogis and laypeople with a more or less highly realised state of mind. His words obviously refer to the relation between dreaming and being awake beyond dualities, so his words are not restricted to monks. But it's not against the basic precepts for average laypeople to find pleasure in entertainment.

Though skeptical toward Western people who repeat "N is S, and S is N" in order to justify their desire to have it both ways: entertainment and "awakening".

Can't see why or how an awakened person can have a desire to read a detective novel, since awakening is per definition beyond desires and aversions. It seems to be simple psychology: For example, dreamy me has no desire to follow the news, and no aversion against it either. I'm indifferent toward it. So why should I spend time on watching the news? I mean, how can one do something if the desire (or aversion) to do it is not there at all? On the other hand, I still have a desire to read novels, so I created this thread. But I don't pretend that this desire is compatible with being awake and enlightened.

However, I know that it's possible to use desires in a skilful way in order to transform and transcend them, instead of supressing them. But that is only a method, a means to an end: the non-goal of awakening. It does not imply that awakening and dreamy entertainment are compatible.

Tnx for mentioning good fantasy novels :buddha1:

Simon E.
Posts: 5636
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Any entertaining novels not too incompatible with awakening?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:26 am

I think you may be forgetting that those who are awake do not stop dreaming. The world does not cease. The difference is they know when they are dreaming.
Its ALL a dream.
In a cave or in your local Vue its all a dream.
The yogi in a cave who thinks it's real is no less asleep than the guy in the third row back in the movies. If the guy in the cinema knows it's a dream then he is far more awake than that yogi in the cave.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

Post Reply

Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: climb-up, Norwegian and 32 guests