what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Post Reply
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by DGA » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:06 pm

the category "white person" or "whiteness" is a contradictory mess. Given today's discussion in the POTUS thread, it seems worthwhile to sort out how it is that both claims make sense:

*there is no such thing as "whiteness" per se; it is a BS category with a short and problematic history, and

*there is such things as "white privilege" and "white trash."

how does this work?

people who correspond to the category "white" come from diverse backgrounds, and which backgrounds count as white has changed dramatically over time. Jews of European descent didn't used to be regarded as white; now they are. Arabs--white or not? Depends who and when you ask. High-caste Hindus? Here's an interesting test of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ingh_Thind

So what, then, holds the category "white" together, if not the people in it? Whiteness is defined as the opposite of an Other, and that other is "not white." That usually means black in the US context, but also means and has meant Latino and Asian... even as some Latinos and Asians are by some accounts white themselves. According to the anthropologist John Hartigan, whiteness as the opposite of nonwhite is itself divided along a class axis, wherein middle class whites distinguish themselves from "trash" as though poverty is a contagion, with the predictable tie to eugenics (see his book Odd Tribes). This is why "white trash" is a racist insult applied by some white folk against other whites in order to establish and reproduce a position of privilege.

And that position of privilege is the point. the normative white perspective, which is little more than an operative fiction, serves to privilege one set of persons at the expense of others. And the only thing that differentiates them is the act of differentiation.

Whiteness is a very powerful fiction. This is the danger in celebration an "emergent white consciousness." Conscious of what? Perhaps of privilege, but not of the means by which that privilege is established, which is a rather dirty and ugly history.

This is not to say that persons of European descent should be ashamed of their heritage. On the contrary. Read your Hegel, kids. Read Milton too. And read your history, because if you do, you will see that the world is a much more complex and fascinating place than the boring categories of armchair racists and dim-bulb brownshirts will allow.

Last thought: what color is the American dream? I have been reminded of a murder in my hometown some thirty years ago. A group of thugs called East Side White Pride killed a man in the streets. He was black. He was an immigrant to this country from Ethiopia. And he was studying to become a doctor--bright and talented. These three were enough to mark him as subhuman. His name was Mulugeta Seraw.

I think Mr. Seraw was pursuing the American dream of prosperity through self-improvement and initiative. It could be argued that his murder was the preservation of a fever dream for a racially pure and homogenous zone in which the most boring privilege of all, a privilege one does not earn--that of not being white trash anymore, but white in full--may be possible. I remember Mr Seraw and mourn his loss, like that of millions of others, when I see hateful nonsense presented as a utopian alternative to a just society.

shorter: racism, die in a fire

User avatar
maybay
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by maybay » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:04 pm

More likely a cold hell.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27788
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:26 pm

Interview with Nell Irvin Painter, author of The History of White People:
As you write in the book, there were four great expansions of what America considers whiteness. What were they?

The first three are expansions of whiteness, because the assumption was that to be American you first had to be white. The first occurred in the Jacksonian era, in the first half of the 19th century, when citizenship criteria were changed from wealth to race. That’s when adult males of any income were allowed to vote, as long as they were considered white. Things changed in the 20th century, when different groups came in as immigrants and people of Irish background were incorporated into the notion of American whiteness. The third great enlargement took place in the mid-20th century, starting with the New Deal in the 1930s and WWII. Politics and the mobilization of Americans to fight the Great Depression and to fight the Second World War opened up American-ness to people who had been considered alien races and their children and grandchildren.

We’re currently in the midst of the fourth great expansion, which is an expansion of the idea of the American — that an American doesn’t necessarily need to be white to be considered American. “American” now includes Hispanics, for example, and people who identify themselves as multiracial. Because of this sort of great enlargement, we can no longer sum up the American as one person or the white man as one person.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Sentient Light
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm
Location: Fairfax, Virginia

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Sentient Light » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:48 pm

I'm an ethnic minority in the US, though I was born here and this is the only home I've ever known (I did live in Canada for five years, but... let's ignore that). Honestly, I have no real issues with "white consciousness" coming into its own, because I believe this whole "I don't see color" thing has become an easy cop-out and generally is used in a way to invalidate the lived experiences of persons of color. The more we talk about whiteness, the more we cast a light on white culture (which we all participate in, regardless of race and ethnicity), the easier it will be to have a dialogue. But the problem comes when we conflate white culture with the culture of imperialism that it has long been associated with (and which Chinese culture and Japanese culture have too been associated with). This is the point when "white consciousness" sees any other racial, ethnic or cultural consciousness as a threat to itself.

But if we can be earnest about the culture of whiteness -- and, yes, it is definitely a fiction, in the same way that "self" is a fiction, but that doesn't mean it isn't a useful fiction -- then it is easier to speak of free cultural exchange, rather than appropriation and colonization. But otherwise, I feel that white folk who want to celebrate their heritage should be entirely free to do so and should be free to connect with it, the same way that I should be free to connect with my heritage. That's not to say everyone will. My brother has little interest in our cultural heritage and entirely identifies with American/modern culture. So there'll always be a spectrum there.

But you're correct that white consciousness must also mean conscious of the privilege that it affords, because if there is no honesty about that, then how can we (the confederation of "Other" cultures) possibly interact and engage with white American culture? There's room for all of us here if we could just talk to each other and be honest with one another and, somehow, drop away the fear we have that the other's viewpoint is a threat to our own existence.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27788
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:05 pm

Sentient Light wrote:
But you're correct that white consciousness must also mean conscious of the privilege that it affords, because if there is no honesty about that, then how can we (the confederation of "Other" cultures) possibly interact and engage with white American culture? There's room for all of us here if we could just talk to each other and be honest with one another and, somehow, drop away the fear we have that the other's viewpoint is a threat to our own existence.
The problem with the normalization of a "white ethnic consciousness" is that it is not a true consciousness, it is a false consciousness, a dangerous one.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

binocular
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:46 pm

DGA wrote:people who correspond to the category "white" come from diverse backgrounds, and which backgrounds count as white has changed dramatically over time. Jews of European descent didn't used to be regarded as white; now they are. Arabs--white or not?

Depends who and when you ask.
Many people are not philosophers, and they think and speak like Humpty Dumpty, making words mean whatever they want them to mean. And they are so much better off for that!

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27788
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:01 pm

binocular wrote:
DGA wrote:people who correspond to the category "white" come from diverse backgrounds, and which backgrounds count as white has changed dramatically over time. Jews of European descent didn't used to be regarded as white; now they are. Arabs--white or not?

Depends who and when you ask.
Many people are not philosophers, and they think and speak like Humpty Dumpty, making words mean whatever they want them to mean. And they are so much better off for that!
  • Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
    All the king's horses and all the king's men
    Couldn't put Humpty together again.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by DGA » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:05 pm

binocular wrote:
DGA wrote:people who correspond to the category "white" come from diverse backgrounds, and which backgrounds count as white has changed dramatically over time. Jews of European descent didn't used to be regarded as white; now they are. Arabs--white or not?

Depends who and when you ask.
Many people are not philosophers, and they think and speak like Humpty Dumpty, making words mean whatever they want them to mean. And they are so much better off for that!
They are ignorant, and ignorance is a problem. Ask any Buddhist.

binocular
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:11 pm

DGA wrote:They are ignorant, and ignorance is a problem.
A problem for whom?
Not for those that you consider "ignorant."
Ask any Buddhist.
In the Buddhist context(s), ignorance has a very specific meaning. It doesn't mean ignorance of the halflife of uranium, or how much a loaf of bread costs, or some such. Sometimes, it is considered as ignorance of the Four Noble Truths, and thus not just any ignorance.

- - -
Malcolm wrote:
  • Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
    All the king's horses and all the king's men
    Couldn't put Humpty together again.
Only in a children's story!

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by DGA » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:13 pm

Sentient Light wrote:I'm an ethnic minority in the US, though I was born here and this is the only home I've ever known (I did live in Canada for five years, but... let's ignore that). Honestly, I have no real issues with "white consciousness" coming into its own, because I believe this whole "I don't see color" thing has become an easy cop-out and generally is used in a way to invalidate the lived experiences of persons of color. The more we talk about whiteness, the more we cast a light on white culture (which we all participate in, regardless of race and ethnicity), the easier it will be to have a dialogue. But the problem comes when we conflate white culture with the culture of imperialism that it has long been associated with (and which Chinese culture and Japanese culture have too been associated with). This is the point when "white consciousness" sees any other racial, ethnic or cultural consciousness as a threat to itself.

But if we can be earnest about the culture of whiteness -- and, yes, it is definitely a fiction, in the same way that "self" is a fiction, but that doesn't mean it isn't a useful fiction -- then it is easier to speak of free cultural exchange, rather than appropriation and colonization. But otherwise, I feel that white folk who want to celebrate their heritage should be entirely free to do so and should be free to connect with it, the same way that I should be free to connect with my heritage. That's not to say everyone will. My brother has little interest in our cultural heritage and entirely identifies with American/modern culture. So there'll always be a spectrum there.

But you're correct that white consciousness must also mean conscious of the privilege that it affords, because if there is no honesty about that, then how can we (the confederation of "Other" cultures) possibly interact and engage with white American culture? There's room for all of us here if we could just talk to each other and be honest with one another and, somehow, drop away the fear we have that the other's viewpoint is a threat to our own existence.
Speaking only from my experience and observations: generally when white folk celebrate their heritage, it goes in one of two directions. Stage right: "white pride," white nationalism, the Klan, and all the rest. Bad news. Stage left: learning how to make Swedish meatballs or Irish stew from your grandparents. Most of the family heritage I inherited from my family concerns foodways from specific cultural contexts, i.e., this is how to roast rutabagas the way our family did in Sweden generations ago. My spouse's stepfamily (of Scottish descent but from Chile) have a completely different palate. But the "white" culture I learned in school was not explicitly white but was instead German, French, English, Italian, or "American" (speaking to Malcolm's earlier post). There are regional variations too. My point is that "white heritage," unless under the reactionary umbrella White Heritage, is really just a catch-all for many national and regional cultures that happen to coincide with light-skinned folk.

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by DGA » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:19 pm

binocular wrote:
DGA wrote:They are ignorant, and ignorance is a problem.
A problem for whom?
Not for those that you consider "ignorant."
Ask any Buddhist.
In the Buddhist context(s), ignorance has a very specific meaning. It doesn't mean ignorance of the halflife of uranium, or how much a loaf of bread costs, or some such. Sometimes, it is considered as ignorance of the Four Noble Truths, and thus not just any ignorance.
That's newspeak.

The ignorance of someone you describe--someone who lives in a world of make-believe, using words to mean whatever he or she decides might be nice--is a problem for that person in precisely the Buddhist sense. A person living in a fantasy world is deluded precisely about the nature of suffering and its causes. A significant portion of the work of liberation is freeing oneself from the fictions one inhabits, apropos of the Four Truths.

War is not Peace.
Freedom is not Slavery.
Ignorance is not Strength.

War is war. Slavery is slavery. Ignorance is ignorance. Even if one chooses to believe, Humpty-Dumpty like, in the happy lies of a Newspeak world.

binocular
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:26 pm

I'm from south-central Europe. I am white. I never even knew my skin had color until I came in contact with Asians and was faced with their Asian supremacism. Then, suddenly, I was regarded as a second-class person (and spiritually inherently inept) because I am white.

As an instinctive reaction, I now like being white, and those Asians can just stick their supremacism somewhere.

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 5543
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Queequeg » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:27 pm

Sentient Light wrote:"white consciousness"
From the Onion
"As a Southerner, I simply want to display the Confederate flag as an important symbol of my heritage and history. My hatred of ni33ers has nothing to do with it."

Jesse Lee Willis
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

Sentient Light
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm
Location: Fairfax, Virginia

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Sentient Light » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:10 pm

Hm. Y'all raise some really good points. After all, my heritage is Vietnamese, not "Asian" and I feel no connection to Korean or Japanese cultures. And these white nationalists are looking to celebrate their whiteness, not their (mostly) Anglo-Saxan heritage, which is a very different thing. Indeed, when I was saying in my earlier post I think it's a good thing for white folk to connect with their heritage, I was thinking of Dwight from The Office and how connected he felt to his Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry (lol).
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

User avatar
The Cicada
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Trumpaloka

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by The Cicada » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:27 am

Queequeg wrote: From the Onion
"As a Southerner, I simply want to display the Confederate flag as an important symbol of my heritage and history. My hatred of ni33ers has nothing to do with it."

Jesse Lee Willis
It's like an accessory musket you keep on the wall.

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:28 pm

DGA wrote:the category "white person" or "whiteness" is a contradictory mess. Given today's discussion in the POTUS thread, it seems worthwhile to sort out how it is that both claims make sense:

*there is no such thing as "whiteness" per se; it is a BS category with a short and problematic history, and

*there is such things as "white privilege" and "white trash."

how does this work?

people who correspond to the category "white" come from diverse backgrounds, and which backgrounds count as white has changed dramatically over time. Jews of European descent didn't used to be regarded as white; now they are. Arabs--white or not? Depends who and when you ask. High-caste Hindus? Here's an interesting test of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ingh_Thind

So what, then, holds the category "white" together, if not the people in it? Whiteness is defined as the opposite of an Other, and that other is "not white." That usually means black in the US context, but also means and has meant Latino and Asian... even as some Latinos and Asians are by some accounts white themselves. According to the anthropologist John Hartigan, whiteness as the opposite of nonwhite is itself divided along a class axis, wherein middle class whites distinguish themselves from "trash" as though poverty is a contagion, with the predictable tie to eugenics (see his book Odd Tribes). This is why "white trash" is a racist insult applied by some white folk against other whites in order to establish and reproduce a position of privilege.

And that position of privilege is the point. the normative white perspective, which is little more than an operative fiction, serves to privilege one set of persons at the expense of others. And the only thing that differentiates them is the act of differentiation.

Whiteness is a very powerful fiction. This is the danger in celebration an "emergent white consciousness." Conscious of what? Perhaps of privilege, but not of the means by which that privilege is established, which is a rather dirty and ugly history.

This is not to say that persons of European descent should be ashamed of their heritage. On the contrary. Read your Hegel, kids. Read Milton too. And read your history, because if you do, you will see that the world is a much more complex and fascinating place than the boring categories of armchair racists and dim-bulb brownshirts will allow.

Last thought: what color is the American dream? I have been reminded of a murder in my hometown some thirty years ago. A group of thugs called East Side White Pride killed a man in the streets. He was black. He was an immigrant to this country from Ethiopia. And he was studying to become a doctor--bright and talented. These three were enough to mark him as subhuman. His name was Mulugeta Seraw.

I think Mr. Seraw was pursuing the American dream of prosperity through self-improvement and initiative. It could be argued that his murder was the preservation of a fever dream for a racially pure and homogenous zone in which the most boring privilege of all, a privilege one does not earn--that of not being white trash anymore, but white in full--may be possible. I remember Mr Seraw and mourn his loss, like that of millions of others, when I see hateful nonsense presented as a utopian alternative to a just society.

shorter: racism, die in a fire
East Coast white Protestant culture.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17129
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:06 pm

Here in Greece the nationalists (read Nazis) believe that the original and true Greeks were tall, white, blonde and with blue eyes. That's pretty funny when you consider that the leaders of Golden Dawn are all short, brown, with dark hair and brown eyes.

Most of them look like they just made it across the Mediterranean on a slowly sinking dinghy...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27788
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:43 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
East Coast white Protestant culture.

Southern Protestants, not East Coast. East Coast is the belt from New England to DC that is by and large very liberal and very diverse.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:05 pm

I don't think that "whiteness" is any more or less artificial and problematic a label than "blackness" is. White people are collected from various diverse ethnic backgrounds and societies, and transplanted into the melting pot of the Americas. Similarly, black people came from highly diverse cultural backgrounds and we're taken forcibly to the Americas to be considered, there, as "one ethnos".

I was working as a housecleaner at York University with a highly ethnically diverse team. One black lady made a rather innocent comment containing the phrase "white people" to a Chilean-Spanish girl I also worked with. The Chilean was quick to say "I'm not white, I'm Spanish." To which the black woman pointing out that black is also a contrived label, her family background was Moroccan, "What do I have in common with South Africans?" she said. And she was right.

Race is very rarely decided on by the people "of" said race. One can argue that "white" developed as an "opposite" to black, in America, to justify the treatment of black people at the time. The ability to "assimilate into" whiteness led to a decrease in ethnic-conflict between white-skinned peoples, in the Americas specifically. I'm thinking of how, in particular, there used to be a lot of extreme ethnic tension between the Irish and Italian communities.

To add more context, before "American whiteness" became a cultural construct, on American censuses, Italian and Irish used to be considered "non-white", as well as other nationalities like Greek I think. The OP's statements about whiteness specifically refer to the idea that whiteness constitutes a cultural hegemony, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Because the sphere of American whiteness used to be limited to a handful of "white" ethnicities: English, French, German, etc. Gradually other groups got to assimilate into white identity, sometimes by leaving their own unique ethnic cultural practices behind.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: what is whiteness? what is it to be "white" in the USA?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:27 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
East Coast white Protestant culture.

Southern Protestants, not East Coast. East Coast is the belt from New England to DC that is by and large very liberal and very diverse.
Maybe they are Southern to you. You're all Easterners. Ohio is included in that for us... rigid Protestant white ethic identity. Southern Baptist or Lutherans from Ohio, makes no difference. That is the shit we in the West have destroyed by intermarriage.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

Post Reply

Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Wayfarer and 31 guests