Don't pay for Dharma Books? (from: "Buddhahood in this life")

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Anonymous X
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Don't pay for Dharma Books? (from: "Buddhahood in this life")

Post by Anonymous X » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:04 am

[Mod note: This discussion emerged in the thread "Buddhahood in this life". It is off topic there.]
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 84#p341466


oldbob wrote: This book will eventually be of great help to many. I look forward to the pdf being on the web in 20 years.
Good job Malcolm!:namaste:
It's already on the web! :spy:

Malcolm: You have a way with words! Easy to watch and listen to. Lots of laughs and lots of good tidbits. Hopefully, you'll continue with your translation work. :bow:
Last edited by Ayu on Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Left note.

Malcolm
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:22 pm

Anonymous X wrote:
oldbob wrote: This book will eventually be of great help to many. I look forward to the pdf being on the web in 20 years.
Good job Malcolm!:namaste:
It's already on the web! :spy:
This just means that people are stealing the Dharma. Pity. But their karma is their own. Hopefully the benefit of contacting the Dharma will outweigh their stinginess.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:06 pm

Stealing a book maybe, but the Dharma cannot be filched.

Wisdom pubs. offers pdf, epub & mobi versions, as well as print.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Malcolm
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:17 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:Stealing a book maybe, but the Dharma cannot be filched.
In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.

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ratna
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by ratna » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:38 pm

The ebook in PDF and other formats is available legally, which is very cool. Downloading illegal scans of Dharma books from Russian pirate sites is very uncool.

R
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ratna
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by ratna » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:47 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
ratna wrote:The ebook in PDF and other formats is available legally, which is very cool. Downloading illegal scans of Dharma books from Russian pirate sites is very uncool.

R
I am desperate to be cool! Note my modified post above, am I cool now?
Totally.
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Rakz
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Rakz » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:31 am

Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:Stealing a book maybe, but the Dharma cannot be filched.
In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.
What if you have transmission and download it for free?

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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by Anonymous X » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:49 am

Rakz wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:Stealing a book maybe, but the Dharma cannot be filched.
In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.
What if you have transmission and download it for free?
What if you bought the book, scanned it, and wanted to share it with others because you felt it was beneficial? What if you just bought the book and shared it with your immediate friends? This would not be considered stealing anything. All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this. Let the lawyers figure it out.

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Matt J
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Matt J » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:31 pm

That's easy: translators won't be able to afford the time and resources to translate books any more. It's called dependent origination, and it applies as much to dharma books as anything. If people don't pay, translators don't get paid, and if translators don't get paid, they will have to do something else.

Then no one will get dharma books and translations anymore.
Anonymous X wrote:
Rakz wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.
What if you have transmission and download it for free?
What if you bought the book, scanned it, and wanted to share it with others because you felt it was beneficial? What if you just bought the book and shared it with your immediate friends? This would not be considered stealing anything. All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this. Let the lawyers figure it out.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Malcolm
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:51 pm

Rakz wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:Stealing a book maybe, but the Dharma cannot be filched.
In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.
What if you have transmission and download it for free?
For me personally, it affects nothing. The amount of money I will make from this book is truly paltry. It would be much more lucrative for me to self-publish. However, the practice of pirating books undermines the Buddhist book industry.
Anonymous X wrote: What if you bought the book, scanned it, and wanted to share it with others because you felt it was beneficial? What if you just bought the book and shared it with your immediate friends? This would not be considered stealing anything. All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this. Let the lawyers figure it out.
Loaning a book is one thing. Copying a few pages is one thing. Uploading an entire book with the intent to make it freely available to all and sundry is quite another. As I pointed out to Rakz, it undermines Buddhist book publishers. We need them. They keep editorial and production standards high because they are professionals and they know what they are doing.

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Josef
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Josef » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:11 pm

I can't believe we even have to talk about pirating dharma books.
Just buy a copy, its worth it.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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heart
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by heart » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:35 pm

Josef wrote:I can't believe we even have to talk about pirating dharma books.
Just buy a copy, its worth it.
+1

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:42 pm

oldbob wrote:From the viewpoint of the Theravada this issue is solved by there being huge amounts of free / low cost Dhamma publications available from many, many sources.
IMHO this is not a real issue since, like the "religions of the book", the lower vehicles think they exist on the basis of a written canon, but a vehicle like atiyoga is dependent on oral transmission. I've never heard of any teacher turning someone away for lack of funds.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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binocular
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by binocular » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:I've never heard of any teacher turning someone away for lack of funds.
I'm sure that many poor people leave on their own, seeing that they don't fit in and can't keep up with others who are materially better off.

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Vasana
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by Vasana » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:59 am

binocular wrote:
PuerAzaelis wrote:I've never heard of any teacher turning someone away for lack of funds.
I'm sure that many poor people leave on their own, seeing that they don't fit in and can't keep up with others who are materially better off.
This is largely down to the the individual's degree of comfort and the the warmth of the group. I've been to teachings in the past on concessions rates or for free when i was out of work. Most teachers are fine to make exceptions if your intention is sincere and most people don't really care if you're poor or not. You're all there in the spirit of listening and contemplating the teachings. If some people are judgemental or snooty, that's reflective of them as people and not you or the Dharma you're going to receive.

I'm not sure what ideas you have about what 'fitting in' and 'keeping up' with others means but they might be assumptions... It's only a big deal if you make it in to one.
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
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Matt J
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by Matt J » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Everyone runs into difficulties and barriers at some point in practice. Eventually, one needs to reach a point where we trust the teachings more than we trust the judgments of our own minds. The purpose of dharma is not to make us comfortable, it is to set us free. And these obstacles can be the very means by which we attain that freedom.

Also, your mind determines your vision. If you want to find flaws and problems in dharma centers, or in teachers, you will always be able to find them. There is always a reason to turn away, not practice, and continue to do what we do. It is the mind's way of keeping everything the same.
binocular wrote:
PuerAzaelis wrote:I've never heard of any teacher turning someone away for lack of funds.
I'm sure that many poor people leave on their own, seeing that they don't fit in and can't keep up with others who are materially better off.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

binocular
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Re: Buddhahood in This Life

Post by binocular » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:52 pm

Matt J wrote:There is always a reason to turn away, not practice, and continue to do what we do. It is the mind's way of keeping everything the same.
It's not clear that this is so. I think you're glossing over some important things.
- - -
Vasana wrote:If some people are judgemental or snooty, that's reflective of them as people and not you or the Dharma you're going to receive.
In case you haven't noticed, people usually hold their judgments of others in high esteem and don't think those judgments are "mere opinions." In think you are unduly downplaying the social aspect of religiosity.
I'm not sure what ideas you have about what 'fitting in' and 'keeping up' with others means but they might be assumptions... It's only a big deal if you make it in to one.
Those who do fit in and are able to keep up with others have easy talking.

Anyway, I'm not complaining. I do wish though that religious people would be more straightforward when it comes to naming the actual requirements for membership in a religion, and not name just the politically correct ones.

emaho
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by emaho » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Anonymous X wrote:All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this.
If somebody downloads a pirate copy of a book, he is very clearly attached to (1) the book and (2) his money.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Grigoris
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by Grigoris » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:44 pm

emaho wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this.
If somebody downloads a pirate copy of a book, he is very clearly attached to (1) the book and (2) his money.
Or poor.
Malcolm wrote:In Vajrayāna, taking a Vajrayāna book for which you do not have transmission is considered stealing the Dharma.
From this should I deduce that payment=transmission?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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emaho
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Re: Don't pay for Dharma Books?

Post by emaho » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:23 pm

Grigoris wrote:
emaho wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:All this gets into very sketchy territory. Sometimes people go too far in their views and attachments to all of this.
If somebody downloads a pirate copy of a book, he is very clearly attached to (1) the book and (2) his money.
Or poor.
What I'm saying is just that if people are accusing translators and publishers of being attached to money that argument very clearly backfires.

Besides, in order to download and read a pirated book one must have access to the internet and an electronic reading device, so the people we're talking about here can't be that poor.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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