Anonymity on Buddhist forums

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anjali
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Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by anjali » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:05 pm

[Mod note: split from Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..]
Anonymous X wrote:If I introduce myself, I will no longer be Anonymous. We can't have that, can we?
You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.
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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..

Post by Malcolm » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:23 pm

anjali wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:If I introduce myself, I will no longer be Anonymous. We can't have that, can we?
You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.

A practice I completely disapprove of.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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conebeckham
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Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..

Post by conebeckham » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
anjali wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:If I introduce myself, I will no longer be Anonymous. We can't have that, can we?
You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.

A practice I completely disapprove of.
As do I. Buddhist morality includes injunctions about personal responsibility for speech. I question anyone who claims to be a Buddhist, on a Buddhist board, and who does not use their actual name. Just for the record.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..

Post by Vasana » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:15 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
anjali wrote: You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.

A practice I completely disapprove of.
As do I. Buddhist morality includes injunctions about personal responsibility for speech. I question anyone who claims to be a Buddhist, on a Buddhist board, and who does not use their actual name. Just for the record.
I don't really think it's a big deal. You can be responsible for what you say without having your real name on here.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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florin
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Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..

Post by florin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:29 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
anjali wrote: You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.

A practice I completely disapprove of.
As do I. Buddhist morality includes injunctions about personal responsibility for speech. I question anyone who claims to be a Buddhist, on a Buddhist board, and who does not use their actual name. Just for the record.
You know, some people worked years at building an online persona.

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Ayu
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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Ayu » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:50 pm

I know people who post under their real name - and it doesn't help anything. They still get excited and aggressive. Hence they have difficulties to control their speech. The username doesn't change this behavior at all.
This is my observation.

People can be friendly, factually or crazy - anonymously or with real names as well. It's the same.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Re: Dzogchen/Mahamudra and Pali Buddhist morals & meditation..

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:48 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
anjali wrote: You can introduce yourself as Anonymous X. :) People can maintain their meatspace anonymity while still introducing themselves. Lots of folks have done so.

A practice I completely disapprove of.
As do I. Buddhist morality includes injunctions about personal responsibility for speech. I question anyone who claims to be a Buddhist, on a Buddhist board, and who does not use their actual name. Just for the record.
I wouldn't want my secular business identity mixed in with spiritual pursuits. My clientele isn't looking for a religious man. That would cut into my bottom line for sure. If it really is a problem here I'd bid you all adieu.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Mkoll » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:49 pm

I don't post under my real name due to privacy concerns. However, I use the same username on Buddhist forums, such as Dhamma Wheel and Dharma Wheel. There's something shady about using different usernames, and it's definitely shady to make new accounts to hide oneself, especially if one has been banned. Many "posters" make a few posts then disappear. I have no doubt some of these are regular users who are trying to hide themselves.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by conebeckham » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:53 pm

All that you have all said is true, I don't dispute it.
Nonetheless, I find anonymity to be inconsistent with a sense of personal responsibility for one's actions and one's speech.

Anonymous posters can be mindful of virtuous speech and conversation.
Non-anonymous people, such as myself, can also be real jackasses.

In any case, we are all "building on-line" personas, which is all most of us will ever know of our fellow participants. However, I personally cannot help but feel that non-anonymous participants are more apt to consider the ramifications of those personas on a personal level, and in society at large.

Concerns about privacy and business concerns are, I suppose, factors to be considered.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Crazywisdom
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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:10 pm

My general impression of western Buddhists is they are the shadiest bunch of nuts and flakes I've had the displeasure of bumping into. The rest are packing sob stories with their woo woo and shitty attitudes. I honestly have no interest being associated with that. Asians bring a slightly more honorable air to it. Mostly I don't get along well with Buddhists. I get along great with established educated folks. It's been interesting to meet certain folks who've helped me sort some stuff out while I pursue my life. But I want that part of my life strictly private. I don't see Buddhists having a significant contribution to this society any time soon. Everyone is into themselves. If you want to go be a rainbow great. It's nobody's business anyway.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Mantrik » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:27 pm

conebeckham wrote:All that you have all said is true, I don't dispute it.
Nonetheless, I find anonymity to be inconsistent with a sense of personal responsibility for one's actions and one's speech.
Yes, but using a specific name is not anonymous, especially if it ties to Facebook, websites, practice reputations etc.
I'm not quite sure why people have such hangups about it.

In the UK, my legal name is whatever I choose to call myself. I need fill in no forms or take any action other than to use that name.
So today I could be Barty Fartghast and tomorrow I could be More Sexplease. (Of course, banks etc ask for a Deed Poll document.........illegally.)

I once posted on a forum where members could change their own usernames at will. It was hilarious. Yet all the discussion went just as well.

So it could be argued that by restricting my right to use whatever name I please, and to change it as often I please a forum is contravening my legal rights.
Well, except for the fact that a person has no legal right to join or to post at all. :)

So, people who need to know my real name know it, and people who do not need to know, don't.

A 'real name' is valid for the second it is used, no more. That's the legal position here in the UK, but of course other countries may be more anal and fearful about it.............like the one that interviewed a 3 month old baby as a potential terrorist becuase his dad ticked the worng box.....only in America! lol :)

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:54 pm

Without question, the best forums i've been on were those where you were forced to provide something akin to your real identity, or at least pretend you were. It doesn't mean that people do, but it puts the onus on people to be honest about who they are, often makes it obvious when they are not, and for meaningful discussion that is good.

On the other hand, there are a number of very legitimate reasons for being anonymous, the more general the forum purpose, the more this is true. There is no doubt in my mind that if we had such rules the discussion quality here would be hugely improved...however, we'd probably have very little membership as well.

Basically, anonymity allows people to not own their words, so they don't. The result is predictable, but for this forum's purpose I also think it's unavoidable.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Mkoll » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:00 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:On the other hand, there are a number of very legitimate reasons for being anonymous
Yes, like identity theft which can totally mess up your life. The less information I put out there that is easily tied to my real identity, the less risk I expose myself to.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Mantrik » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:18 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Without question, the best forums i've been on were those where you were forced to provide something akin to your real identity, or at least pretend you were. It doesn't mean that people do, but it puts the onus on people to be honest about who they are, often makes it obvious when they are not, and for meaningful discussion that is good.

On the other hand, there are a number of very legitimate reasons for being anonymous, the more general the forum purpose, the more this is true. There is no doubt in my mind that if we had such rules the discussion quality here would be hugely improved...however, we'd probably have very little membership as well.

Basically, anonymity allows people to not own their words, so they don't. The result is predictable, but for this forum's purpose I also think it's unavoidable.
A web search on my username leads to facebook and to websites which are all about Nyignma, Vajrayana, Shamanism and specifically Garuda-related information.
A web search on my real name will produce hits only of ancient historical links to 'the cult which shall not be named' and 'the fat narcissist who worships a ghost'. I would end up with no end of angst about long dead activity, some decades old.
I have no interest in attracting that kind of crap........and I would do so on any Buddhist forum.
So, before people sanctimoniously issue their blanket condemntation, I would suggest that they consider that there are so many reasons people may choose anonymity that a policy of full disclosure would make no difefrence to the way they post but may preclude their involvement completely. That is not a compassionate way to behave.
I'm not aware of Buddhas who banned followers or banned debate with people on the basis of the name they used.

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:23 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Without question, the best forums i've been on were those where you were forced to provide something akin to your real identity, or at least pretend you were. It doesn't mean that people do, but it puts the onus on people to be honest about who they are, often makes it obvious when they are not, and for meaningful discussion that is good.

On the other hand, there are a number of very legitimate reasons for being anonymous, the more general the forum purpose, the more this is true. There is no doubt in my mind that if we had such rules the discussion quality here would be hugely improved...however, we'd probably have very little membership as well.

Basically, anonymity allows people to not own their words, so they don't. The result is predictable, but for this forum's purpose I also think it's unavoidable.
A web search on my username leads to facebook and to websites which are all about Nyignma, Vajrayana, Shamanism and specifically Garuda-related information.
A web search on my real name will produce hits only of ancient historical links to 'the cult which shall not be named' and 'the fat narcissist who worships a ghost'. I would end up with no end of angst about long dead activity, some decades old.
I have no interest in attracting that kind of crap........and I would do so on any Buddhist forum.
So, before people sanctimoniously issue their blanket condemntation, I would suggest that they consider that there are so many reasons people may choose anonymity that a policy of full disclosure would make no difefrence to the way they post but may preclude their involvement completely. That is not a compassionate way to behave.
I'm not aware of Buddhas who banned followers or banned debate with people on the basis of the name they used.
There was nothing sanctimonious in what I said, and I specifically mentioned that there are legitimate reasons for anonymity, read closer.

That said, it has an undeniable effect on the quality of conversation when people cannot hide behind anonymity. Not all people take advantage of anonymity this way, plenty do not, but enough do that it changes the landscape.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Mantrik
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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Mantrik » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:29 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mantrik wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Without question, the best forums i've been on were those where you were forced to provide something akin to your real identity, or at least pretend you were. It doesn't mean that people do, but it puts the onus on people to be honest about who they are, often makes it obvious when they are not, and for meaningful discussion that is good.

On the other hand, there are a number of very legitimate reasons for being anonymous, the more general the forum purpose, the more this is true. There is no doubt in my mind that if we had such rules the discussion quality here would be hugely improved...however, we'd probably have very little membership as well.

Basically, anonymity allows people to not own their words, so they don't. The result is predictable, but for this forum's purpose I also think it's unavoidable.
A web search on my username leads to facebook and to websites which are all about Nyignma, Vajrayana, Shamanism and specifically Garuda-related information.
A web search on my real name will produce hits only of ancient historical links to 'the cult which shall not be named' and 'the fat narcissist who worships a ghost'. I would end up with no end of angst about long dead activity, some decades old.
I have no interest in attracting that kind of crap........and I would do so on any Buddhist forum.
So, before people sanctimoniously issue their blanket condemntation, I would suggest that they consider that there are so many reasons people may choose anonymity that a policy of full disclosure would make no difefrence to the way they post but may preclude their involvement completely. That is not a compassionate way to behave.
I'm not aware of Buddhas who banned followers or banned debate with people on the basis of the name they used.
There was nothing sanctimonious in what I said, and I specifically mentioned that there are legitimate reasons for anonymity, read closer.

That said, it has an undeniable effect on the quality of conversation when people cannot hide behind anonymity. Not all people take advantage of anonymity this way, but enough do that it changes the landscape.
Apologies, I was making a general remark,not aimed at you specifically. Some have a very 'purist' view here which does not seem to allow for legit reasons. Again, I would point to Compassion and ask them to think the best of people rather than assume the worst. However, like you, I suspect some use anonimity to hide behind, but until they breach forum rules, it matters only if they pretend to have teachers and attainments which clearly cannot be properly examined.

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by smcj » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:31 pm

Coming from a different perspective, I'm a fan of anonymity. It's for the same reasons Alcoholics Anonymous uses anonymity. It's to keep someone from getting a swelled head. They use first names only or maybe first and last initial on the level of public discourse and no photographs in the media are allowed. My "smcj" are the initials of the city I lived in when I first signed up for DW and my nickname at work.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:44 pm

smcj wrote:Coming from a different perspective, I'm a fan of anonymity. It's for the same reasons Alcoholics Anonymous uses anonymity.
I've always thought of Buddhism as being the original 12 step program, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Nidānas
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:46 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mantrik wrote:
A web search on my username leads to facebook and to websites which are all about Nyignma, Vajrayana, Shamanism and specifically Garuda-related information.
A web search on my real name will produce hits only of ancient historical links to 'the cult which shall not be named' and 'the fat narcissist who worships a ghost'. I would end up with no end of angst about long dead activity, some decades old.
I have no interest in attracting that kind of crap........and I would do so on any Buddhist forum.
So, before people sanctimoniously issue their blanket condemntation, I would suggest that they consider that there are so many reasons people may choose anonymity that a policy of full disclosure would make no difefrence to the way they post but may preclude their involvement completely. That is not a compassionate way to behave.
I'm not aware of Buddhas who banned followers or banned debate with people on the basis of the name they used.
There was nothing sanctimonious in what I said, and I specifically mentioned that there are legitimate reasons for anonymity, read closer.

That said, it has an undeniable effect on the quality of conversation when people cannot hide behind anonymity. Not all people take advantage of anonymity this way, but enough do that it changes the landscape.
Apologies, I was making a general remark,not aimed at you specifically. Some have a very 'purist' view here which does not seem to allow for legit reasons. Again, I would point to Compassion and ask them to think the best of people rather than assume the worst. However, like you, I suspect some use anonimity to hide behind, but until they breach forum rules, it matters only if they pretend to have teachers and attainments which clearly cannot be properly examined.
Gotcha.

One way I could play devil's advocate to my own statements: There have been plenty of users here over the years who have been -very- public about their identities who have ended up with all kinds of trouble on the board (thinking here of teachers who run afoul of mods or members, and have ongoing 'feuds' with people), so it goes both ways.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Malcolm
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Re: Anonymity on Buddhist forums

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:48 pm

I regard the input of anonymous users who are unknown to me with only slightly more regard than the ramblings of the town drunk.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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