Unkindness at dharmawheel

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Ayu
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:08 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
(...)
No-one can bring back jewels from a treasure island without relying on an experienced navigator. Likewise, a spiritual friend is our true guide to liberation and omniscience, and we must follow him with respect
Patrul Rinpoche
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?

Again, this is a dzogchen perspective. If you follow another yana, then please just ignore what I type.


You are looking for a teacher on the internet? Beware. Take good care of yourself.

Guys who tell you they are not your teacher are the most friendly and honest people you can find here. :thumbsup:
Last edited by Ayu on Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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justsit
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by justsit » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:09 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
Or her. :smile:
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?
You are not likely to find the actual teacher here, but you may find hints or links where you might want to look further. References to writings, videos, retreats, or even more obscure posts - you never know where auspicious coincidence can manifest.

Simon E.
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:15 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:39 pm
DGA wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:17 pm
The truth is that we are NOT each other's teachers.
Indeed.
No-one can bring back jewels from a treasure island without relying on an experienced navigator. Likewise, a spiritual friend is our true guide to liberation and omniscience, and we must follow him with respect
Patrul Rinpoche
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?

Again, this is a dzogchen perspective. If you follow another yana, then please just ignore what I type.
I think there is only one teacher of Vajrayana who is a regular on this forum, and he plays down his teaching role and functions more as a particularly knowledgeable member when he is online.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:03 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:15 pm
I think there is only one teacher of Vajrayana who is a regular on this forum, and he plays down his teaching role and functions more as a particularly knowledgeable member when he is online.

I wonder who it could be? Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Simon E.
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Simon E. » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:59 pm

I suspect that the same applies in the Zen forums.
There is one actual teacher who posts as a member.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by odysseus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:57 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:45 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:52 am
odysseus wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:45 am


Have you heard about the cannibal who crapped out his neighbour?
I get it,obtuse humor.
He can't help it, he's Norwegian! :P Wait 'til you meet someone from Finland!
It's all good. Not everyone understand our proud mystical viking jokes. :heart:

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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by odysseus » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:35 am

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:07 am
My chiropractor ( which is what he actually is, not a chiropodist :roll: senior moment there) and his family are going to the family cabin in Lapland for 'a real Christmas'!

Seems a bit too real to me... :smile:
Don't be an as*hole, Simon. We all wish you and your chiropractor a Merry Cristmas! Hope he does not break any bones in you, he's a real killer.

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Grigoris
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:01 am

odysseus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:57 pm
It's all good. Not everyone understand our proud mystical viking jokes. :heart:
I figured you for Sami, not Viking.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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weitsicht
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by weitsicht » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:24 pm

Ayu wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:08 pm
weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
(...)
No-one can bring back jewels from a treasure island without relying on an experienced navigator. Likewise, a spiritual friend is our true guide to liberation and omniscience, and we must follow him with respect
Patrul Rinpoche
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?

Again, this is a dzogchen perspective. If you follow another yana, then please just ignore what I type.
You are looking for a teacher on the internet? Beware. Take good care of yourself.

Guys who tell you they are not your teacher are the most friendly and honest people you can find here. :thumbsup:
Please don't get me wrong.

I am not looking for anyone anywhere.

I just consider everyone, even everything, I do meet a teacher.
Something causes provocation. Something else maybe a denigrating thought.
Whatever arises, is the result of an external, internal or secret factor.
The whole effulgence of dharmakaya is my teacher.
Although I may forget about that, at least I try again and again.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

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Ayu
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Ayu » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:31 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:24 pm
Ayu wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:08 pm
weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
(...)
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?

Again, this is a dzogchen perspective. If you follow another yana, then please just ignore what I type.
You are looking for a teacher on the internet? Beware. Take good care of yourself.

Guys who tell you they are not your teacher are the most friendly and honest people you can find here. :thumbsup:
Please don't get me wrong.

I am not looking for anyone anywhere.

I just consider everyone, even everything, I do meet a teacher.
Something causes provocation. Something else maybe a denigrating thought.
Whatever arises, is the result of an external, internal or secret factor.
The whole effulgence of dharmakaya is my teacher.
Although I may forget about that, at least I try again and again.
Ah, now it makes sense. Thanks for this clearification.

Like this also a garbage can might be a good teacher and the teachings are internal affairs anyway. It is a matter of the certain layer of perception. If you understand it's a garbage can but you take it as your teacher anyhow, then you understand as well not to take anything literally. This is important, I believe. And also easy to forget again and again. :smile:

May your path prosper and may you be protected.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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weitsicht
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by weitsicht » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:17 pm

Ayu wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:31 pm
Ah, now it makes sense. Thanks for this clearification.

Like this also a garbage can might be a good teacher and the teachings are internal affairs anyway. It is a matter of the certain layer of perception. If you understand it's a garbage can but you take it as your teacher anyhow, then you understand as well not to take anything literally. This is important, I believe. And also easy to forget again and again. :smile:
Uh yes, very easy to forget. Again and again!

Maybe the garbage can disgusts me. I judge on smell sensations.
Maybe I take this occasion to reflect on impermanence. THis was supposed to contain my food once. Now it's deemed useless.
Maybe I associate with the past, maybe I project some future thing.
So many ripples.
It's all mentation.
Ayu wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:31 pm
May your path prosper and may you be protected.
Same for you dear Ayu and for all the beings in this world.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

joy&peace
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by joy&peace » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:24 pm

Well, the main thing is to learn and grow ourselves, then we can share what we've learned with others.

I.e., the first step is to find peace, and then how to share it with others.

But the main and only thing really to begin with is peace, ourselves.

Always to go deeper into understanding and wisdom, is very good.

Transforming the heart/body to be its natural state -- of perfect health, this is first.

To find peace and share it - basic path.

To cultivate the four infinites, and/or develop annutara samyak sambodhi, this goes further.

Ahimsa is necessary, to get to the first steps. . . . loving-kindness and others, all connect together, positive attributes reinforcing each other.

Thay makes the point often of beginning with ourselves, to cultivate this in ourself, and then we are able to share it with others.

Light and peace :)

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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:58 am

Both surprising and unsurprising, and at the same time incredible.

DGA
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by DGA » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:37 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:39 pm
DGA wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:17 pm
The truth is that we are NOT each other's teachers.
Indeed.
No-one can bring back jewels from a treasure island without relying on an experienced navigator. Likewise, a spiritual friend is our true guide to liberation and omniscience, and we must follow him with respect
Patrul Rinpoche
So who is this spiritual friend? How do you identify him being so sure he is not in this forum?
A Root Teacher is the teacher who has introduced you to the nature of the mind. If you don't think you'll find him on the internet, why wasting the time?

Again, this is a dzogchen perspective. If you follow another yana, then please just ignore what I type.
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand your meaning.

My point is merely this (from another topic):

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27114

DGA
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by DGA » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:48 pm

veggiepeace wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:42 pm
joy&peace wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 pm
Should not all members be treated with respect?

The contributions we make - all make - are valuable.
Just my 5 cents :thinking: :-) :
Apart from the few, usual bullys that we can find all over in the internet there seems
to be respect in this forum, in conversations amoung forists who have been discussing with each other
and even some sympathy and most of the time focus on content rather than on personal attacks.

There are exemptions though - very few people that really show bad, hostile and provocing demeanour -
which would probably have been sanctioned in other forums, but as this is a "buddhist" environment,
such harmful attitudes seem to be "tolerated" which means tacit consent for bullys.

How to deal with "unkindness" in general and in particular situations?

Unkindness can happen to everyone, no one is always kind or capable to show "kind behavior".

Therefore I would distinguish between "unkindness" that's not intentional and unconsciously acted out and "unkindness" that
indulges in harming or hurting others.

It can happen that my (our) words might hurt or "trigger" others without my (our) intention or conscious awareness.
The problem is when people do not work on their harmful behavior and attititude, as they might consequently
be caught in a vicious cycle then and do not understand the reason why.

That's why it could even be helpful to alert people when they show aggressive or abusive behaviour towards others, because it offers
them (the "unkind" person) a chance to learn from their actions. It might be benefical for themselves as well as for their targets.
Please correct me when you think that I am wrong here.

"Unkindness" is not a problem for me! and of course it always depends on the context, but personally I myself for sure contempt bullys and avoid them
as good as I can.
You mentioned bullies. This is an interesting point.

I was bullied for a brief while at e-sangha by someone who later turned up here at DW. After a while, I adopted a policy of engaging with this person and challenging the claims he or she made, challenging the assumptions behind those claims, challenging the relevance of the source material he or she used and whether or not it was warranted to the question at hand, and so on. Maybe this person will learn something this time?

I still do this sometimes because this person still tries to shut me up, shame me, shout me down, or otherwise push me around. Some of our more chivalrous members object to me doing so, and they make some weird assumptions in the process themselves, but I don't find their arguments convincing so I ignore them.

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Malcolm
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:01 pm

DGA wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:48 pm
Maybe this person will learn something this time?
From everything I have seen, very unlikely.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

DGA
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by DGA » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:01 pm
DGA wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:48 pm
Maybe this person will learn something this time?
From everything I have seen, very unlikely.
Sure, but lying to myself gives me some reprieve from the ennui and meaninglessness of it all

odysseus
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Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel

Post by odysseus » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:39 pm

DGA wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:55 pm
Sure, but lying to myself
Can you hear yourself in your head? Then it's not lies, because Buddha speaks the truth. Even if Mara wants to be Buddha, he is not able to lie to you if he ever manages to become the Buddha - no! :good:

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