When the Earth is a Cinder

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Queequeg
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When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:09 pm

The Uninhabitable Earth

Curious to hear what our resident conservatives and/or Trump fans have to say after reading that.

Of course, the invitation to discuss goes out to everyone in general.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:55 pm

I haven't read that article yet, but it freaked dzogchungma out.

There is this though:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... ble-earth/

Anyway, I basically decided it was all over a while ago.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Wayfarer
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:08 am

The 'conservative' response to climate change is truly shocking. (I use quotes, because there are political conservatives who recognise the problem.) But the willful ignorance and denial, the manipulation of public opinion by vested interests, and the refusal to acknowledge scientific opinion, are deeply depressing. Here in Australia, a perfectly successful carbon pricing system was introduced, and was working exactly as intended, and the abolished for purely political reasons. Now Australia's emissions are rising again with no real plan for how to stop them. Meanwhile the shock jocks and so-called 'conservatives' are spewing the propaganda that the whole issue is a 'green left conspiracy to destroy business and undermine western democracies.' IO honestly don't believe that Western governments are up to the challenge; businesses might be, individuals might be, but the political system can't deal with it.

Shocking graphic, in that lead story, by the way. :jawdrop:
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Sādhaka » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:23 am

I'm not an Trump fan nor an 'climate change denier' per sé; but we should be just as concerned about monsanto's, big-pharma's and other chemical company's crap contaminating the ecosystem.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Yavana
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Yavana » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:49 am

Queequeg wrote:Curious to hear what our resident conservatives and/or Trump fans have to say after reading that.
dzogchungpa wrote:Anyway, I basically decided it was all over a while ago.
My children have inherited adaptive melanin responses, to varying degrees, from their respective mothers, who come from robust stock. The "conservative" perspective is one that assumes that a world dominated by avarice, hatred and stupidity will continue to warrant responses to the actions those things breed until something changes that. By the current reckoning of my abaci, cross referenced with the planetary motions recorded in the farmer's almanac, Earth is such a place.

:shrug:

My descendants on Earth will waive to yours on Mars.

:hi: :namaste:

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:37 am

dzogchungpa wrote:I haven't read that article yet, but it freaked dzogchungma out.

There is this though:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... ble-earth/

Anyway, I basically decided it was all over a while ago.
I've been reading the articles rebutting the extreme message of the New York article I linked. The response is that Wallace-Wells focuses on the worst case scenarios, which is precisely what he explains he is doing in the article. Aside from a couple minor errors, the biggest issue critics had with his facts is that Wallace-Wells exaggerates the amount of methane that is expected to be released from the thawing of permafrost.

The critiques are given with the typical caution that scientists are known for. There is no real rebuttal. Instead, the scenarios Wallace-Wells are panned as unlikely - but possible, still.

Which brings us to what appears to be the real critique...
The evidence that climate change is a serious problem that we must contend with now, is overwhelming on its own. There is no need to overstate the evidence, particularly when it feeds a paralyzing narrative of doom and hopelessness.
They don't like the alarmist tone, not necessarily the substance.

I certainly hope the worst doesn't happen... I would not be able to look my children in the eye if I thought we are doomed. But the measured approach of scientific community has not made the kind of impression you'd think threats of rising temperatures, rising sea levels, and mass extinction ought to make. Maybe it's time to scare the bejesus out of people and create a sense of urgency.

To relate this to Buddhism, according to legend, the Buddha was spurred to seek enlightenment after having an existential freakout on seeing a dead person. Maybe we need a collective existential freakout to get our heads focused in on this very serious threat to our survival?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:44 am

The Cicada wrote: My descendants on Earth will waive to yours on Mars.

:hi: :namaste:
No. More like Prometheus. Mars colonization is a pipe dream. The best we will probably manage is a space capsule with dna samples shot out into space.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:14 am

The Cicada wrote:My descendants on Earth will waive to yours on Mars.
Not mine, I waived on the descendants thing. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Yavana
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Yavana » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:22 am

Queequeg wrote:No. More like Prometheus.
I know some grave sites we can visit. Rig the whirling bodies to a generator and we'll have unlimited, eco-friendly, free energy.

:thumbsup:

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:27 am

I think the only way to 'colonize space' is to become sufficiently de-materialised to manifest wherever conditions are suitable. That saves the bother of having to move actual stuff around big empty spaces, which is all 'space travel' amounts to.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Yavana » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:40 am

Queequeg wrote:The best we will probably manage is a space capsule with dna samples shot out into space.
Wayfarer wrote:I think the only way to 'colonize space' is to become sufficiently de-materialised to manifest wherever conditions are suitable. That saves the bother of having to move actual stuff around big empty spaces, which is all 'space travel' amounts to.
Inseminate the cosmos. That has to be the answer.
dzogchungpa wrote: Not mine, I waived on the descendants thing. :smile:
Send Queequeg a sample.

:sage:

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Wayfarer
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:57 am

Queequeg wrote:Aside from a couple minor errors, the biggest issue critics had with his facts is that Wallace-Wells exaggerates the amount of methane that is expected to be released from the thawing of permafrost.
Are you aware of the stories about the gigantic craters that have mysteriously appeared in Siberia, the last few years?

Image

There is some debate that these might be due to the release of methane that had previously been trapped in permafrost, although the science is still unclear.There's an account here.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Wayfarer wrote:... honestly don't believe that Western governments are up to the challenge; businesses might be, individuals might be, but the political system can't deal with it.
The slightly-less-bad news is that individuals, businesses and lower levels of government are in fact getting on with the job while federal governments (Oz and US) sit on their hands. And the really-quite-good news is that renewable energy is very rapidly becoming the cheapest - subsidies or no subsidies - energy source in market after market.The energy sector is now on our side. But it's all changing so fast that different stages of the transition are concertina'd together like carriages in a train crash. People wanting to build new coal-fired power stations are only a few years behind the times. Even Adani is only a few years behind the times - when they bought into the Galilee, coal prices were high, export markets were strong, solar power was expensive, there was no great angst in India about pollution. None of those things hold true now, less than ten years later. And what's ten years in the life of a coalfield? Usually nothing much. Heard of 'stranded assets'? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... -stranded/

:twothumbsup:
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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:38 pm

Kim, I agree with you that there is hope in the market forces tending toward renewables. What I'm afraid of, however, is that those same market forces favor deregulation and firms willing to take advantage of deregulation, consequences to the environment be damned, as long as it means profits in the short term. This is why major players like the US government need to be on board with efforts to curb the rise in temperatures and all the other types of avoidable damage to the environment. They are the only entities that can alter market rules to tip the scales in favor of a more robust turn toward responsible environmental stewardship.

I hope the obsession with a return to coal is short-lived interlude and we in the US return to a more environmentally conscious policy outlook that was taking hold under the last administration. It was a belated but hopeful start.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:33 pm

The Cicada wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Not mine, I waived on the descendants thing. :smile:
Send Queequeg a sample.

:sage:
With all due respect to Qq, I think you might make a better seed steward. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:00 pm

Just like the Earth's atmosphere, this thread is going :toilet:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Wayfarer wrote: Are you aware of the stories about the gigantic craters that have mysteriously appeared in Siberia, the last few years?

Image

There is some debate that these might be due to the release of methane that had previously been trapped in permafrost, although the science is still unclear.There's an account here.
I remember reading about these a few years back. Its nice to know that they probably were not formed by exploding methane pockets... but still yet another indication that we should be concerned about rising temperatures...

Thanks for that link.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Yavana » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:36 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
The Cicada wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Not mine, I waived on the descendants thing. :smile:
Send Queequeg a sample.

:sage:
With all due respect to Qq, I think you might make a better seed steward. :smile:
Definitely a job for automation. :namaste:

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:02 am

Queequeg wrote:Kim, I agree with you that there is hope in the market forces tending toward renewables. What I'm afraid of, however, is that those same market forces favor deregulation and firms willing to take advantage of deregulation, consequences to the environment be damned, as long as it means profits in the short term. This is why major players like the US government need to be on board with efforts to curb the rise in temperatures and all the other types of avoidable damage to the environment. They are the only entities that can alter market rules to tip the scales in favor of a more robust turn toward responsible environmental stewardship.
We can do more with the government on our side than with it against us, for sure. Choose your government wisely!
But also consider that late-stage capitalism is the root of our problems, both environmental and social: corporations have immense clout and no morals or foresight whatever. Their only drive is short-term profit. This is not new news, btw - go back and re-read the beginning of Brave New World and you will see the politics of consumerism laid out in a couple of crisp paragraphs.
I hope the obsession with a return to coal is short-lived interlude and we in the US return to a more environmentally conscious policy outlook that was taking hold under the last administration. It was a belated but hopeful start.
"The obsession with a return to coal", both in the US and here, is restricted to coal companies, the politicians they own, and the working class communities they have bamboozled.
I hope you have a group like our Market Forces https://www.marketforces.org.au/about. If not, maybe you can start one?

:jedi:
Kim

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Re: When the Earth is a Cinder

Post by Yavana » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:47 am

Kim O'Hara wrote: the politicians they own
Key phrase out of the entire thread thus far. This issue is why we can't effectively legislate the problem away and why conservatives don't trust such legislation. Take power from the plutocrats and put it in the hands of less accessible and less effective bureaucrats who, at best, are simply controlled by another set of plutocrats. As a bonus, the average citizen gets to lose some autonomy to the bureaucracy. Net loss.
Queequeg wrote:Mars colonization is a pipe dream.
In all seriousness, I think that if we knew how to repair our atmosphere we'd be farther along in knowing how to catalyse the Martian atmosphere into something bearable, create self-sustaining "biodome" habitat systems, and grow crops underground.

If you don't think that these issues can be solved with engineering and research, it's time for everyone to unplug everything, quit going to work and start fasting. Get off that train, man. Your productivity is raping mother Earth.

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