ChNN on Jesus?

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smcj
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by smcj » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:18 am

In this schema would saints be Sambogakaya forms? They lived physical lives (..."allegedly" at least for some) but make appear non-physically and also communicate from physical to ultimate (like angels, who communicate more rom ultimate to physical generally).
They're have the same status as Guru Rinpoche or Milarepa, which is Nirmanakaya. At least the mystics would be Nitmanakaya. Most Christian saints were martyrs or political. The mystics learned to keep quiet.
https://soundcloud.com/user-730689343/chenrezig-puja
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:42 am

smcj wrote:If you're going to draw parallels:
Jesus = Nirmanakaya (physically present)
Angels = Sambogakaya (communication between physical and ultimate)
God(head) = Dharmakaya (in a Meister Eckhart kinda way)
I can tell you were not raised a Catholic ;-) You so obviously need the Trinity here. The Father is the Dharmakaya, the Nirmanakaya is the Son, and the Holy Ghost must be the Sambhogakaya (cannot be any other way, since the places of the Son and the Father in the equation are patently obvious).

You could go in the opposite direction as well, and think of Garab Dorje, Padmasambhava and Shakyamuni as the Trinity -- and for the total, full-blown, no-brakes and no-safety-nets Jungian insanity, bring in Yeshe Tsogyal, Mandarava and Guhyajnana on the Dharmic side, and the three Maries on the Christain side! Then on to the Five Dhyani Buddhas and archangels, etc. Let nothing stop you!

(Nothing here makes much sense, incidentally. But it might be great fun.)
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:04 am

I wonder what Jesus has to say about ChNN?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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lelopa
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by lelopa » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:16 am

Grigoris wrote:I wonder what Jesus has to say about ChNN?
He may give him an introduction in the nature of monotheism
हूं हूं हूं
फट् फट् फट्

Tiago Simões
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:22 am

I think Jesus corresponds to one of these guys in buddhist cosmology

Image
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

amanitamusc
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by amanitamusc » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:41 am

Grigoris wrote:I wonder what Jesus has to say about ChNN?
Rinpoche,can you help me get this Gyalpo of my back.

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Caoimhghín
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Caoimhghín » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:25 pm

Πεχ̣ε Ιησοως χ̣ε ευϣδ χ̣οως νητ̣ν́ ν́ϭι νετσ̣ωκ αϩτ τηϣν́
Says Iēsows: If they habitually say it to you, those who lead the heart and mind of you:

χ̣ε Εισηητε ε̣τ̣μν́τ̣ερo ϩν τ̣πε ε ειε ν́ϩδλητ νδρ̣́ωoρπ ερωτ̣ν́ ν́τε τ̣πε [...]
"Behold! The abstract sovereignty dwells in the sky," then the birds will be made prior to you to be of that sky.

If they habitually say it to you: "It is in the sea," then the fish will be made prior to you to be of that sea.

But rather, the abstract sovereignty is of your inside and of your outside. When you habitually recognize [this abstract sovereignty as inside, outside, yourself,] then it shall recognize you and you shall understand that you are the "Sons of the Father Who Lives". If however you shall recognize yourself not, then you are in an abstract poverty and you are an abstract poverty.
(Gospel of Thomas, Saying III)

ChNN is Jesus. :meditate: :stirthepot: :spy: :oops: :namaste:
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

smcj
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by smcj » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:31 pm

From the TOS:
This is not a "comparative religion site", it is a site to learn and discuss the Buddha's teachings without animosity.
Well, so far we are keeping to the "no animosity" provision. At least hat's somethin'!
:applause:
https://soundcloud.com/user-730689343/chenrezig-puja
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

odysseus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

Grigoris wrote:
odysseus wrote:
muni wrote:
Maybe Gyalwa Rinpoche, H H Dalai Lama: “ do not compare me with Jesus, since he is a great master”.
This attitude seems to be a teaching, somehow. Or I am wrong?
He really said that? Maybe to calm some people down and bring them back into reality. To compare Dalai Lama with Christ must be a very hopeful and deluded attitude.
A second ago you said that Jesus was an enlightened being and now you have a problem with comparing him to HHDL. I guess you do not consider HHDL an enlightened being?
The Dalai Lama is like an uncle to me. When I was a baby in the 70's, he visited my country and my parents brought me to him for a blessing and he gave me the name Tenzin Lhundup. Yeah, he is a living sage and I consider him enlightened and he has earned his parinirvana. But he is still not my leader, it is Buddha who is the Lord.

Jeff
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Jeff » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:11 pm

muni wrote:Ask Rinpoche? :smile:

Maybe Gyalwa Rinpoche, H H Dalai Lama: “ do not compare me with Jesus, since he is a great master”.
This attitude seems to be a teaching, somehow. Or I am wrong?
Yes, an excellent teaching.

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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:13 pm

odysseus wrote:
Grigoris wrote:
odysseus wrote:
He really said that? Maybe to calm some people down and bring them back into reality. To compare Dalai Lama with Christ must be a very hopeful and deluded attitude.
A second ago you said that Jesus was an enlightened being and now you have a problem with comparing him to HHDL. I guess you do not consider HHDL an enlightened being?
The Dalai Lama is like an uncle to me. When I was a baby in the 70's, he visited my country and my parents brought me to him for a blessing and he gave me the name Tenzin Lhundup. Yeah, he is a living sage and I consider him enlightened and he has earned his parinirvana. But he is still not my leader, it is Buddha who is the Lord.
Wooow calm there :tongue:
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

odysseus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:27 pm

tiagolps wrote: Wooow calm there :tongue:
Yeah, but don't you think the Dalai Lama will go to Nirvana? Don't you think maybe even Christ reached Nirvana? What is the issue?

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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:34 pm

odysseus wrote:
tiagolps wrote: Wooow calm there :tongue:
Yeah, but don't you think the Dalai Lama will go to Nirvana? Don't you think maybe even Christ reached Nirvana? What is the issue?
and he has earned his parinirvana
He isn't dead yet.
Jesus I don't know, his teachings were not meant for us.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

odysseus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:53 pm

tiagolps wrote: He isn't dead yet.
.
He isn´t, but he will go there.
tiagolps wrote: Jesus I don't know, his teachings were not meant for us.
You may not like what I say, but in Buddhism there are several "heavens". Tushita Heaven for example, where the coming Buddha Maitreya lives. But at the moment, I like to think that Christ was enlightened and reached Nirvana and not a heaven with god as a ruler. But he needed to talk about it in his age's terms and how people understood him. Therefore, he has been misrepresented. He was a great master and that's why the Dalai Lama will not compare himself.

Maybe the Christ even lives today, as a bodhisattva who is still enlightening the people. Think positive.

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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:59 pm

odysseus wrote:You may not like what I say, but in Buddhism there are several "heavens". Tushita Heaven for example, where the coming Buddha Maitreya lives. But at the moment, I like to think that Christ was enlightened and reached Nirvana and not a heaven with god as a ruler. But he needed to talk about it in his age's terms and how people understood him. Therefore, he has been misrepresented. He was a great master and that's why the Dalai Lama will not compare himself.

Maybe the Christ even lives today, as a bodhisattva who is still enlightening the people. Think positive.
No, I have no issue with that, it's true that bodhisattvas may manifest has leaders of different religions and expound a wrong view to benefit certain beings. But like I said, it's not for us, it's still wrong view. And because it's not for us, there is little point in trying to "fit" jesus into our world view.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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dzogchungpa
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:04 pm

I've been thinking about the OP a bit and I think ChNN would say, in this context, that we are all Jesus.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:27 pm

Grigoris wrote:I wonder what Jesus has to say about ChNN?
dzogchungpa wrote:I've been thinking about the OP a bit and I think ChNN would say, in this context, that we are all Jesus.
It cannot but indubitably follow, then, that Jesus would say we are all ChNN.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

odysseus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:28 pm

tiagolps wrote:[But like I said, it's not for us, it's still wrong view. And because it's not for us, there is little point in trying to "fit" jesus into our world view.
What is the wrong view of Christ? It's not about fitting him into our world view. A Buddhist has no "world view". For a Buddhist, he lives in Samsara. Quite compatible with Christ's teachings of his passion and compassion and how to relieve it.

odysseus
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:29 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Grigoris wrote:I wonder what Jesus has to say about ChNN?
dzogchungpa wrote:I've been thinking about the OP a bit and I think ChNN would say, in this context, that we are all Jesus.
It cannot but indubitably follow, then, that Jesus would say we are all ChNN.
Good joke. ChNN is suddenly Christ now. Let's make him a cult. I asked if he is great in America, never heard of him.

Tiago Simões
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Re: ChNN on Jesus?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:35 pm

odysseus wrote:What is the wrong view of Christ?
The obvious dualistic view. But let's not get into inter religious debate.
odysseus wrote:A Buddhist has no "world view"
The 6 realms of samsara? the law of cause and effect? the very idea that enlightenment exists?
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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