See you on the next bardo

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Queequeg
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See you on the next bardo

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:50 pm

Consciousness after death, scientifically proven...

http://nypost.com/2017/10/19/after-you- ... y-reveals/
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
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Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
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Fortyeightvows
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:03 pm

Saying it's proven by science is just glorifying science. As though 'science' is the guarantee of correct.

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Mantrik
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Mantrik » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:14 pm

I thought it was a bit misleading when I read about this in the UK media.

Evidence that brain cells may still have some activity after clinically defined 'death' is not really evidence of consciousness.
Leaving aside the obvious Buddhist convictions I have, the evidence from those who have technically died and then been restored to life, and those who accurately recall past lives, is much more convincing to me.

In the past, lack of heartbeat or breathing was death, now we have brain 'death', and I'm sure that sooner or later another criterion will be used, perhaps using a means of detecting energy that we don't yet possess.

It must make a lot of people anxious to think that their loved one may have been aware (in some way) during their post-mortem etc.
For us, all the more reason, perhaps, to conduct Phowa for the deceased asap after the body seems to have died.
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Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Fortyeightvows
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:33 pm

there is so much disagreement about when a person is considered to be dead, it is less controversial than when a person is considered to be alive.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:07 pm

The remake definitely wasn't as good as the original.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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Queequeg
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:11 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:07 pm
The remake definitely wasn't as good as the original.
An example of birth in a lower realm?

I tried clicking around on the page for the original but got lazy. Do you have a link to the UK version?
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:18 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:11 pm
An example of birth in a lower realm?
Flatliners.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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Jesse
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Jesse » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:28 am

I agree it's misleading.

By saying there is brain activity for up to 10 minutes after death, they are being deceptive. It should read, "They recorded brain activity for up to 10 minutes after the heart stopped beating."

Which proves nothing really. Except that the length of the time that the brain stays functioning varies from person to person, probably depending on a number of factors.

For example, it probably depends greatly on how efficiently peoples bodies metabolize oxygen, and how much 'energy' is stored in their cells at the moment their heart stops.

The heart pumps blood around the body to circuit oxygen, and nutrients to cells, otherwise, the heart beating is insignificant to life. It's not like when the heart stops, life suddenly ends, but rather when oxygen, and nutrients are cutoff from organs, they fail. When the brain as an organ fails, it's likely or seemingly likely that consciousness and awareness as we know it also ends.

TBH when people publish deceptive, and inconclusive data as fact, it harms real research and will lessen any real discoveries in the future.

I for one, do not personally believe it's entirely possible to provide real objective proof on the existence of consciousness/awareness after physical death. Third party subjective personal states can only be assumed, and never really proven. There are physical correlations sometimes, but never definitive proofs. For example, when someone says they are in love, it's likely they have heightened levels of certain neurochemicals, but the presence of these neurochemicals is not evidence of love.

What is love to begin with? Is it a physical condition that manifests as a subjective experience? Or a subjective experience that manifests physical conditions? The same is true of pain, which is why it's so notoriously hard to treat. Is pain a physical condition, or an experience?

Some would argue we know the definition of conscious awareness. If we do, then why are there hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of books, internet articles, and studies attempting to define it? The problem is that we can't really describe what awareness is, only what it's like to experience it. We can abstract about it, reason about it.. but I find it hilarious that we are so ignorant about a condition that we all share.

Being that we are so ignorant about the fundamental functioning of awareness, is it not possible our perception of 'life', or stated differently 'my own personal sense of subjective existence' ... is not real, to begin with?

Maybe real is not a good word, but more something like substantial.

Buddhism supposes that we lack an inherent self; when actualizing that reality; what does it really mean for something like our concept of personal existence? Existence, Non-Existence, etc..
“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:33 am

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife

Thousands of people have had near-death experiences, but scientists have argued that they are impossible. Dr. Eben Alexander was one of those scientists. A highly trained neurosurgeon, Alexander knew that NDEs feel real, but are simply fantasies produced by brains under extreme stress.

Then, Dr. Alexander’s own brain was attacked by a rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human—shut down completely. For seven days he lay in a coma. Then, as his doctors considered stopping treatment, Alexander’s eyes popped open. He had come back.

Alexander’s recovery is a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself.

Alexander’s story is not a fantasy. Before he underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. Today Alexander is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.

This story would be remarkable no matter who it happened to. That it happened to Dr. Alexander makes it revolutionary. No scientist or person of faith will be able to ignore it. Reading it will change your life.

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neu ... 1451695195






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Jesse
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Re: See you on the next bardo

Post by Jesse » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:10 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:03 pm
Saying it's proven by science is just glorifying science. As though 'science' is the guarantee of correct.
You realize BuddhaDharma Philosophy takes the same exact stance as 'science', the methodologies are exactly the same. The only difference is that BuddhaDharma uses direct personal experience as the means of exploration, verification, and study.

While "Western" modern science, has a very poor reputation of accepting subjective experiences as proofs. Well, it's worse than that in many places, many scientists vehemently deny subjective experience has any validity at all, in an almost neurotic, religious fashion.

Once scientists as a whole get past this stage of ignorance, or for those who currently practice science without this roadblock -- then science is the best, and the only real method of discovery that matters. Science is simply the application of logic in the pursuit of truth. We call the bi-products of this study science also, but more generally, science is simply discovery and exploration.

As a matter of fact, the many Buddhists who come from Scientific backgrounds almost invariably appreciate the similarities between science, and Buddhist logic, and discourse.
“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus


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