Grievances, real and fictional

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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The Cicada
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by The Cicada » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:54 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:47 pm
If you're too stupid to see how deranged he is, is there hope for you (you, being the proverbial Alt Right moron, not anyone in particular)? Is there anything I could say, meeting you on the terms you define, that will change your mind?
The proverbial moron. Oh, sure. Hon hon hon! :P

One of the things I've recently and fairly often tried to do in my posts to this forum is to convey what I mean to say as concisely as possible so that it encapsulates an element of absurdity and truth that leads to a wider perspective. This could also be described as me attempting to convey points that I find meaningful while simultaneously sounding as stupid as possible. I think this a situation that merits such a response, and I'm going to give you what you want, but not the way you want it.

How do you penetrate the mind of the other? You have to get inside of it, wholly without the consent of your opponent. It must be done in such a way that your message is embedded so deeply into their own thinking that they cannot help but acknowledge the thrust of your argument when they regard their own worldview. You must penetrate that worldview despite their wish that it not be so, and leave it pregnant to blossom into your own.

For a higher purpose.

Remember: The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions. You can't unread what has been read, and every attempt to abort it from your mind just leads right back to it.
We seem to be enthralled in a collective psychotic episode, each playing their role, all of them, every single one, a victim, but not just in terms of circumstance, but right down in their souls. I want to quote Leonard Cohen, saying "Love is the only engine of survival," but he sings it so morosely, without hope.
Didn't the Buddha say something about attached love ultimately leaving us disappointed? Turn that shit down, too!
The only approach that has ever worked when this paradigm has played itself out into a sclerotic script - in this case, moron march with torches and other morons engage, either in baiting a beat down, in which the cell phone footage displays the torch carrying moron's depravity, or, if the antifa out number the torch bearers, they beat down the torch bearers - is to transcend.

Turn that shit down.
Or figuratively blow it up with transcendence so that the explosions don't become literal?



"Tune in, turn on, drop out."
The dude abides.

:meditate:

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Queequeg
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:36 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:54 pm
...This could also be described as me attempting to convey points that I find meaningful while simultaneously sounding as stupid as possible. I think this a situation that merits such a response, and I'm going to give you what you want, but not the way you want it.

How do you penetrate the mind of the other? You have to get inside of it, wholly without the consent of your opponent. It must be done in such a way that your message is embedded so deeply into their own thinking that they cannot help but acknowledge the thrust of your argument when they regard their own worldview. You must penetrate that worldview despite their wish that it not be so, and leave it pregnant to blossom into your own.

For a higher purpose.

Remember: The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions. You can't unread what has been read, and every attempt to abort it from your mind just leads right back to it.
Say, if wan't so slow, I might think you were mocking me.

The point was confrontation. Confrontation is the shit show we see playing out on college campuses. This idiocy. That is not stretching anyone's mind. That is making people stupider. And that's Antifa ridiculousness. Alt Right morons are worse only because they're soooo stupid they take to running people down in their penis compensating cars or shooting into a crowd.

There is no intelligent conversing going there. Just a lot of victims crying.
Didn't the Buddha say something about attached love ultimately leaving us disappointed? Turn that shit down, too!
Metta doesn't disappoint.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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The Cicada
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by The Cicada » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:45 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:36 pm
Say, if wan't so slow, I might think you were mocking me.
You know you my ace-boon-esquire, Q-Dawg.

The point was confrontation. Confrontation is the shit show we see playing out on college campuses. This idiocy. That is not stretching anyone's mind. That is making people stupider. And that's Antifa ridiculousness. Alt Right morons are worse only because they're soooo stupid they take to running people down in their penis compensating cars or shooting into a crowd.

There is no intelligent conversing going there. Just a lot of victims crying.
Shrill, impotent cries from each side. My point was that, maybe, somehow, someone, somewhere, should try engaging these issues with each side using a different tack. Metta and karuna reach out, and they aren't hurt by ingratitude.

I do see the Left, as currently being in a dominant position in our society, as having more of an obligation to reach out and engage the other side at this time. Even if the weaker party is a snake, it has its place in the world. Use the motivation of compassion and the long stick of wisdom to fling such a snake back where it needs to be.

Metta doesn't disappoint.
You know you like it.

:namaste:

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Queequeg
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Queequeg » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:12 am

The Cicada wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:45 am
Shrill, impotent cries from each side. My point was that, maybe, somehow, someone, somewhere, should try engaging these issues with each side using a different tack. Metta and karuna reach out, and they aren't hurt by ingratitude.

I do see the Left, as currently being in a dominant position in our society, as having more of an obligation to reach out and engage the other side at this time. Even if the weaker party is a snake, it has its place in the world. Use the motivation of compassion and the long stick of wisdom to fling such a snake back where it needs to be.
I agree there needs to be engagement, but not at the level of antifa and altright activists. Those are children driven by ideology.

It ought to be at the level of Congress, but we have a bunch of people constantly campaigning based on game plans drawn up by highly paid consultants using focus group tested messaging. There's no engagement with the electorate - just hammering slogans that work up the base and motivate the vote.

Where does engagement happen?
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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The Cicada
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by The Cicada » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:30 am

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:12 am
I agree there needs to be engagement, but not at the level of antifa and altright activists. Those are children driven by ideology.
As are we... #BuddhaChild #DontKnockMyBuddha Seriously, we can't separate our-"selves" from the "other," can we? Wherever we look, "there" "we" "are." Can I get a svaha?
It ought to be at the level of Congress, but we have a bunch of people constantly campaigning based on game plans drawn up by highly paid consultants using focus group tested messaging. There's no engagement with the electorate - just hammering slogans that work up the base and motivate the vote.
Congress doesn't really represent "the people" anymore, does it. And I think this is where the problem begins. Lines are being drawn according to a view of an "other side" which is has been filtered through this or that lens coming from some source removed from the actual interests of each.

Where does engagement happen?
I don't know. *jazzhands*

They say the Trump campaign was catapulted into prominence by 4chan. Basement-dwellers around the world took to social media, blogs, and forums to spread the word so as to smite the complacent of the world as agents of an avatar of Powerful Idiocy. But this was also a way of redressing many legitimate concerns that the establishments of many parts of the world previously refused to acknowledge. Then, the assorted "basement dwellers" and allied homophobisexiracists gained some retribution through Trump. Now the Alt-Right is shaking the world.

If the "Left" can stop their own from halting free speech, if they can calm their nerves through equanimous practice of suck-it-up-buttercup, stop self-righteously attacking those they see as enemies and listen both to the sincere words of dialogue with their opponents and between the lines to the underlying suffering of right-wing extremists, they can win back many of the people they've lost to the Right before the actual hard-line racists, fascists, and misogynists gain a critical mass of support.

If those with such political leanings as the individuals who frequent this forum can take time to reach out, like Avalokiteshvara, with minds of compassion to those they view as deplorable, they will begin to see their hearts, flaws and all, and be able to win them over and—I would hope, willing to compromise. In many ways, the people who frequent this forum and the Alt-Right are asking for the same things using different words and frameworks.

Eventually, someone less wierd than Milo might come along and start saying stuff in the MSM that makes more sense to most people than what we hear anyone forwarding now.

:shrug:

I've got to get back to my giant wine jar.

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Malcolm
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Malcolm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:37 am

The Cicada wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:45 am


I do see the Left, as currently being in a dominant position in our society...
Apparently, you need to pay more attention to the news, because that shit just ain't true anymore. More's the pity, too.
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pothigai
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by pothigai » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:41 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:43 pm
pothigai wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:38 pm
caligirl wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:33 am
The current radical left is as much of a tyranny as the right. X2

I live in a rebel state. There's really no space for conversation. You doubt the liberals, you get fired and lose all of your friends. This is what they thought progressive means.
Liberals aren't really the radical left. A fair amount of people on the radical left are actually critical of this type of witch-hunting.

Thank you. How modern "SJW" culture got to define what "radical left" means for people I have no idea.
People like Marx, Engels and Luxemburg were actually free speech absolutists. It's ironic that the complete opposite is identified as the 'left' nowadays.
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)

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Grigoris
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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:15 pm

steveb1 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:57 pm
caligirl wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:33 am
The current radical left is as much of a tyranny as the right. X2

I live in a rebel state. There's really no space for conversation. You doubt the liberals, you get fired and lose all of your friends. This is what they thought progressive means.
Amen to that. The problem isn't confined to the right wing "assholes" another poster complained about. In many ways the Left's behavior is indistinguishable from the early Marxists, complete with rigid Party Line, character assassination and pogroms against anyone not on the Left. For example, Antifa - a terrorist Communist group, its only raison d'etre to violently disrupt legal, peaceful gatherings of Republicans, conservatives, and Alt Right groups.

Leftists cutting off lifetime friends over politics, firing/getting people fired. Ostracizing of those politically and morally opposed to the Left. Designating foes as "bigots", "the Deplorables", "fascists", "Nazis", and worse. The "embracing, tolerant" Left at its ugliest and most dangerous. Progressives who are really Regressives. Who support the functional equivalent of White genocide by mass replacement of White Europeans with Middle Easterners who, as Muslims, are openly hostile to their host nations. As I said: ugly and dangerous.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:03 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:08 pm
Alex Jones = Texas, USA. Muslim immigration = Europe. If the flow of migrants was reversed—if Europeans were flooding into the homelands of the people of the Middle East and Africa because of overpopulation, for example, we would rightly call this what it is: Colonialism. Letting their homelands be changed the way they have is a dangerous experiment that might collapse the society of their nations.
cow dung.jpg
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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Grievances, real and fictional

Post by Grigoris » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:10 pm

pothigai wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:41 am
People like Marx, Engels and Luxemburg were actually free speech absolutists. It's ironic that the complete opposite is identified as the 'left' nowadays.
What is identified as "left" by Americans. Trust me, here in Europe, people understand what is meant by left and right.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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