Best political system for Dharma

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Tiago Simões
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Best political system for Dharma

Post by Tiago Simões » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:30 am

Since you were all debating political systems. What, in your views, is the best political system for Buddhadharma?

Mind I'm not asking what political system aligns with Dharma better, the answer to that is a big fat, none.

I'm asking, which political system allows for Dharma to flourish more?

I'll go first and say my view: Monarchy

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:37 am

... why?
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Tiago Simões » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:49 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:37 am
... why?
Why the question or why my view? :tongue:

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:50 am

Why monarchy? No agenda from me, I just imagine this may not be a popular view.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Tiago Simões » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:01 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:50 am
Why monarchy? No agenda from me, I just imagine this may not be a popular view.
Ah simple, Buddhism needs patrons. And Kings/Queens have been the most important patrons of Dharma. Where would Buddhism be without Emperor Ashoka? King Trisong Detsen? On the other hand what as Democracy done for Dharma...?

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Malcolm
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:45 am

tiagolps wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:01 am
On the other hand what as Democracy done for Dharma...?
.

Allowed it to survive in age where we don’t much like kings.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Losal Samten
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Losal Samten » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:51 am

Cakravartinism.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

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Mkoll
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Mkoll » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:01 am

Losal Samten wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:51 am
Cakravartinism.
AKA the (Dharma) wheel-turning monarch.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

shaunc
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by shaunc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:04 am

It's usually a good idea not to mix politics and religion.

smcj
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by smcj » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:35 am

A political system that accommodates the Precious Human Rebirth.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Malcolm
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:39 am

smcj wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:35 am
A political system that accommodates the Precious Human Rebirth.
At this point in time, I'd choose democracy then. The problem with tying the fortune of Dharma to kings is that history clearly shows when the fortune of kings suffer, so does the fortune of Dharma.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:56 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:39 am
... democracy ...
Like the statement about communism which has become a bad joke (and perhaps capitalism too), it has never been tried.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

emaho
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by emaho » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am

tiagolps wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:30 am
I'll go first and say my view: Monarchy
Why? If Portugal was a monarchy it would be highly unlikely that you'd even be allowed to practice imported third world religions like Buddhism. :shrug:
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Malcolm
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:16 am

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:56 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:39 am
... democracy ...
Like the statement about communism which has become a bad joke (and perhaps capitalism too), it has never been tried.
Sure it has, and I'll take what passes for it, with all its warts and blemishes, over any other system which has been tried so far.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Grigoris
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Grigoris » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:51 am

Anarcho-Communism, it's the best political system for everything! :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Ayu
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Ayu » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:25 am

I think, it must be a political system that provides a good material foundation for it's citizens. People are only able to practice dharma if the basic necessities are no struggle anymore. Food, clear water, shelter, education and medical care have to be easily available - otherwise there's no scope for Dharma.

So, it must be a political system that doesn't contradict human rights, environmental care and social needs.
I think, it is not possible to really name it, because often a political system doesn't fulfill what it is supposed to offer. In communism people can be exploited, capitalism can create poverty on a large scale and some systems are called monarchy but they're dictatorships only.
So, the name of the system is not very telling. Important are the laws and how they are implemented. I believe, the laws of the European Union could be a good umbrella for democracy as it is supposed to be. :tongue:
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Hate is too great a burden to bear.
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Grigoris
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Grigoris » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:36 am

Monarchy is the dumbest choice ever... Why? Because today you may have a cakravartin, but when they die they may be replaced by some sort of psychopathic inbred moron (like Trump, for example) and they will have the (birth) right to exercise absolute power.

And suddenly your Dharma is shagged senseless...

Anyway, I think Dharma institutions should not depend on state support. If a Dharma institution is relevant for the people, they will support it. If it is not relevant then it will wither and fade unless it is reassessed and somehow made relevant again. State support leads to institutions that are more political, than religious, in nature. State and religion should be kept separate or, as per my recommendation above, there should be no state at all.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

DharmaChakra
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by DharmaChakra » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:53 am

Namaste

I am not sure how much I will contribute to this as its complex and can be too diverse in opinions.

Whats considered a monachy in todays world or the European culture of monarchy is very different from Dharma traditions of where rajas or Kshatriya were rulers, the rajas~Kshatriya's did not have total autonomy, there are many subdivisions in society and all were in the ideal forms all seen as equal, one cannot exits n balance without the others in balance. Monarchy systems in Saudi and examples of Kings and Queens had absolute rule, using control of religion and force and elitism to manage society, this is not what the Vedic and Dharma traditions of Bharata Represented, it was more holistic, there are 8 classes in society 4 social and 4 as ashrams and each classes were integrated into a whole, the rajas Kshatriya were not just warriors and kings, they ran the administration and law and order, that would be in line with the brahmins who would study shastra, shastra comes from the sadhu who maintains purity of dharma in oral traditions, its a living tradition. There may be examples where that society was corrupted but there are examples where that tradition living dharma flourished. Im just saying that Dharma cultures were and still are to some degrees run by rajas is different to what people consider as monarchy systems and democracy.

Siddharta when he was teaching carried a lot of weight due to him coming from a Kshatriya family, he was seen as a noble, he was often introduced and spoken highly as coming from a good birth, this made people listen to him. Would anyone listen to Om Baba who sits with the people in the tea stall in the high courts. What this also proves is the Kshatriya in that society was not seen as isolated or elitists, it was not uncommon that a Kshatriya would also be a very learned wise sage, some were rishis such as janaka, there is a deep dharma to the Kshatriya which is saturated in spirituality and heritage and its not separate or elite to society, its part of the fabric of dharma. Or it was, we only have fractured remnants left to pick up the pieces. Sometimes it goes into adharma such as in the mahabharata and it leads to war, and other times when parasurama wiped out whole lineages.

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Tiago Simões » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:10 am

emaho wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am
Why? If Portugal was a monarchy it would be highly unlikely that you'd even be allowed to practice imported third world religions like Buddhism.
We can't really know that can we? There are monarchies (albeit not absolute) today in Europe were you can freely practice what you will.

Also the idea that Democracy=Freedom of religion is relative. Look at the US, can you say through out it's history you could freely (and openly) practice buddhism? Then look at Russia, and Buddhism's relationship with Russian monarchs there.
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:36 am
Anyway, I think Dharma institutions should not depend on state support.
And yet, we should have so much gratitude for those kings/queens that have helped immensely in propagating the Dharma through patronship.

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Grigoris
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Re: Best political system for Dharma

Post by Grigoris » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:44 am

tiagolps wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:10 am
And yet, we should have so much gratitude for those kings/queens that have helped immensely in propagating the Dharma through patronship.
We should have gratitude towards the individuals, not towards their position, another person in the same position may use their power and influence to destroy the Dharma. Don't confound the actions of the individual with their position. ie Don't fall prey to the "politicians syllogism".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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