Best political system for Dharma
-
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
- Location: Portugal
Best political system for Dharma
Since you were all debating political systems. What, in your views, is the best political system for Buddhadharma?
Mind I'm not asking what political system aligns with Dharma better, the answer to that is a big fat, none.
I'm asking, which political system allows for Dharma to flourish more?
I'll go first and say my view: Monarchy
Mind I'm not asking what political system aligns with Dharma better, the answer to that is a big fat, none.
I'm asking, which political system allows for Dharma to flourish more?
I'll go first and say my view: Monarchy
- PuerAzaelis
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm
Re: Best political system for Dharma
... why?
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
-
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Why the question or why my view?
- PuerAzaelis
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Why monarchy? No agenda from me, I just imagine this may not be a popular view.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
-
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Ah simple, Buddhism needs patrons. And Kings/Queens have been the most important patrons of Dharma. Where would Buddhism be without Emperor Ashoka? King Trisong Detsen? On the other hand what as Democracy done for Dharma...?PuerAzaelis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:50 am Why monarchy? No agenda from me, I just imagine this may not be a popular view.
- Losal Samten
- Posts: 1591
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Cakravartinism.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
Re: Best political system for Dharma
AKA the (Dharma) wheel-turning monarch.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: Best political system for Dharma
It's usually a good idea not to mix politics and religion.
-
- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: Best political system for Dharma
A political system that accommodates the Precious Human Rebirth.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Best political system for Dharma
At this point in time, I'd choose democracy then. The problem with tying the fortune of Dharma to kings is that history clearly shows when the fortune of kings suffer, so does the fortune of Dharma.
- PuerAzaelis
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Like the statement about communism which has become a bad joke (and perhaps capitalism too), it has never been tried.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Why? If Portugal was a monarchy it would be highly unlikely that you'd even be allowed to practice imported third world religions like Buddhism.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Sure it has, and I'll take what passes for it, with all its warts and blemishes, over any other system which has been tried so far.PuerAzaelis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:56 amLike the statement about communism which has become a bad joke (and perhaps capitalism too), it has never been tried.
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Anarcho-Communism, it's the best political system for everything!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Best political system for Dharma
I think, it must be a political system that provides a good material foundation for it's citizens. People are only able to practice dharma if the basic necessities are no struggle anymore. Food, clear water, shelter, education and medical care have to be easily available - otherwise there's no scope for Dharma.
So, it must be a political system that doesn't contradict human rights, environmental care and social needs.
I think, it is not possible to really name it, because often a political system doesn't fulfill what it is supposed to offer. In communism people can be exploited, capitalism can create poverty on a large scale and some systems are called monarchy but they're dictatorships only.
So, the name of the system is not very telling. Important are the laws and how they are implemented. I believe, the laws of the European Union could be a good umbrella for democracy as it is supposed to be.
So, it must be a political system that doesn't contradict human rights, environmental care and social needs.
I think, it is not possible to really name it, because often a political system doesn't fulfill what it is supposed to offer. In communism people can be exploited, capitalism can create poverty on a large scale and some systems are called monarchy but they're dictatorships only.
So, the name of the system is not very telling. Important are the laws and how they are implemented. I believe, the laws of the European Union could be a good umbrella for democracy as it is supposed to be.
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Monarchy is the dumbest choice ever... Why? Because today you may have a cakravartin, but when they die they may be replaced by some sort of psychopathic inbred moron (like Trump, for example) and they will have the (birth) right to exercise absolute power.
And suddenly your Dharma is shagged senseless...
Anyway, I think Dharma institutions should not depend on state support. If a Dharma institution is relevant for the people, they will support it. If it is not relevant then it will wither and fade unless it is reassessed and somehow made relevant again. State support leads to institutions that are more political, than religious, in nature. State and religion should be kept separate or, as per my recommendation above, there should be no state at all.
And suddenly your Dharma is shagged senseless...
Anyway, I think Dharma institutions should not depend on state support. If a Dharma institution is relevant for the people, they will support it. If it is not relevant then it will wither and fade unless it is reassessed and somehow made relevant again. State support leads to institutions that are more political, than religious, in nature. State and religion should be kept separate or, as per my recommendation above, there should be no state at all.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
-
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:38 am
Re: Best political system for Dharma
Namaste
I am not sure how much I will contribute to this as its complex and can be too diverse in opinions.
Whats considered a monachy in todays world or the European culture of monarchy is very different from Dharma traditions of where rajas or Kshatriya were rulers, the rajas~Kshatriya's did not have total autonomy, there are many subdivisions in society and all were in the ideal forms all seen as equal, one cannot exits n balance without the others in balance. Monarchy systems in Saudi and examples of Kings and Queens had absolute rule, using control of religion and force and elitism to manage society, this is not what the Vedic and Dharma traditions of Bharata Represented, it was more holistic, there are 8 classes in society 4 social and 4 as ashrams and each classes were integrated into a whole, the rajas Kshatriya were not just warriors and kings, they ran the administration and law and order, that would be in line with the brahmins who would study shastra, shastra comes from the sadhu who maintains purity of dharma in oral traditions, its a living tradition. There may be examples where that society was corrupted but there are examples where that tradition living dharma flourished. Im just saying that Dharma cultures were and still are to some degrees run by rajas is different to what people consider as monarchy systems and democracy.
Siddharta when he was teaching carried a lot of weight due to him coming from a Kshatriya family, he was seen as a noble, he was often introduced and spoken highly as coming from a good birth, this made people listen to him. Would anyone listen to Om Baba who sits with the people in the tea stall in the high courts. What this also proves is the Kshatriya in that society was not seen as isolated or elitists, it was not uncommon that a Kshatriya would also be a very learned wise sage, some were rishis such as janaka, there is a deep dharma to the Kshatriya which is saturated in spirituality and heritage and its not separate or elite to society, its part of the fabric of dharma. Or it was, we only have fractured remnants left to pick up the pieces. Sometimes it goes into adharma such as in the mahabharata and it leads to war, and other times when parasurama wiped out whole lineages.
I am not sure how much I will contribute to this as its complex and can be too diverse in opinions.
Whats considered a monachy in todays world or the European culture of monarchy is very different from Dharma traditions of where rajas or Kshatriya were rulers, the rajas~Kshatriya's did not have total autonomy, there are many subdivisions in society and all were in the ideal forms all seen as equal, one cannot exits n balance without the others in balance. Monarchy systems in Saudi and examples of Kings and Queens had absolute rule, using control of religion and force and elitism to manage society, this is not what the Vedic and Dharma traditions of Bharata Represented, it was more holistic, there are 8 classes in society 4 social and 4 as ashrams and each classes were integrated into a whole, the rajas Kshatriya were not just warriors and kings, they ran the administration and law and order, that would be in line with the brahmins who would study shastra, shastra comes from the sadhu who maintains purity of dharma in oral traditions, its a living tradition. There may be examples where that society was corrupted but there are examples where that tradition living dharma flourished. Im just saying that Dharma cultures were and still are to some degrees run by rajas is different to what people consider as monarchy systems and democracy.
Siddharta when he was teaching carried a lot of weight due to him coming from a Kshatriya family, he was seen as a noble, he was often introduced and spoken highly as coming from a good birth, this made people listen to him. Would anyone listen to Om Baba who sits with the people in the tea stall in the high courts. What this also proves is the Kshatriya in that society was not seen as isolated or elitists, it was not uncommon that a Kshatriya would also be a very learned wise sage, some were rishis such as janaka, there is a deep dharma to the Kshatriya which is saturated in spirituality and heritage and its not separate or elite to society, its part of the fabric of dharma. Or it was, we only have fractured remnants left to pick up the pieces. Sometimes it goes into adharma such as in the mahabharata and it leads to war, and other times when parasurama wiped out whole lineages.
-
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Best political system for Dharma
We can't really know that can we? There are monarchies (albeit not absolute) today in Europe were you can freely practice what you will.
Also the idea that Democracy=Freedom of religion is relative. Look at the US, can you say through out it's history you could freely (and openly) practice buddhism? Then look at Russia, and Buddhism's relationship with Russian monarchs there.
And yet, we should have so much gratitude for those kings/queens that have helped immensely in propagating the Dharma through patronship.
Re: Best political system for Dharma
We should have gratitude towards the individuals, not towards their position, another person in the same position may use their power and influence to destroy the Dharma. Don't confound the actions of the individual with their position. ie Don't fall prey to the "politicians syllogism".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde