The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

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coffeebeans
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by coffeebeans » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:02 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:44 am
I agree, but the Dharma seems founded on the idea there is some truth out there...albeit meaningless. ;)
After finding truth no one ever reads the fine print: 'congratulations, this is the booby prize.' :lol:

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Sherab
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by Sherab » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:43 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:39 am
What if the truth wasn't the truth ? How can there be truth with all concepts are false ?
Hmm, not sure if you failed to understand or you understood to fail. All concepts are false does not mean that there is no truth. The truth in Buddhism is the direct experience of reality. Nothing conceptual in that as I understand it.
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:44 am
... but the Dharma seems founded on the idea there is some truth out there...albeit meaningless. ;)
Indeed, the Dharma must have been founded on there being some truth out there but when there is only one reality/truth, meaning loses all meaning conceptual-wise.

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Wayfarer
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:48 am

Worldly life and mundane concerns are meaningless. I think that's all that is being said.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

boundless
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by boundless » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:18 am

Hi all,

My two cents...

Yes, according to Buddhism we (if unenlightened) are here for a reason. The reason being "karma": in fact our present life is the result of "karma" (see https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html). This tenet of Buddhism gives, in part at least, an answer to the existential question "why I am here?". The "materialist" view that we are here by chance of course is refuted by the karma doctrine.

The problem is that this "meaningful life" is ultimately unsatisfactory. So in order to make life really meaningful there is the possibility to end samsara itself, which gives us "the highest bliss". So in two ways Buddhism teach in fact that life is meaningful. On one hand there is karma. On the other hand there is the pursuit of absolute freedom from suffering. A materialist negates both these "meanings".

Also we should note that "meaning" and "value" are somewhat different. Compassion is of course a central aspect of Buddhism. On one hand the motivation of compassion is to at least reduce suffering, on the other hand it is also to give happiness. The cessation of suffering, in Buddhism, is also the ultimate happiness. Actually the two are deeply inseparable, just like the positive aspect of emptiness is potentiality.
Compassion shows that life has value.

This is only my "two cents", of course.

:anjali:

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fuki
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:48 am
Worldly life and mundane concerns are meaningless. I think that's all that is being said.
What's meaningless today might be meaningfull tomorrow, it's relative, and not letting go of relative thinking too binds one to the wheel of life and death.

To me meaningful and meaningless are fantasies the conditioned mind adds to perception, I woke up and fed the cats, meaningfull/meaningless? Such things I would only think about when suffering some existential crisis.
Also seperating meaning depending on "worldly life" and the dharma reeks a bit of self-importance. We all have jobs to do, the "worldly" and the "holy" one should fullfill them and not dwell so much on the meaning or meaningless of activities, again feels a bit too self-important. But if one needs meaning to let go of relative thinking then say its meaningfull and get on with it, if one needs no meaning to let go of both meaning and non-meaning then say its meaningless and go on with it.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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fuki
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:57 am
fuki wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:02 am
Just because nothing is permanent it doesnt mean it has no value,
We are the meaning makers. Nature just want's to survive. Life is programed to proliferate.
And we are the meaningless makers :lol:

We also compose music, and I like the gaps between the notes, just as the space "between" thoughts, between thoughts about this and that.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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Malcolm
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by Malcolm » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:53 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:48 am
Glad to be a Zenny, we dont give birth to concepts and then discuss if they have meaning haha
Zen forums must be very silent then.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by Malcolm » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:58 pm

fuki wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:24 pm
Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:48 am
Worldly life and mundane concerns are meaningless. I think that's all that is being said.
What's meaningless today might be meaningfull tomorrow, it's relative, and not letting go of relative thinking too binds one to the wheel of life and death.

To me meaningful and meaningless are fantasies the conditioned mind adds to perception, I woke up and fed the cats, meaningfull/meaningless? Such things I would only think about when suffering some existential crisis.
Also seperating meaning depending on "worldly life" and the dharma reeks a bit of self-importance. We all have jobs to do, the "worldly" and the "holy" one should fullfill them and not dwell so much on the meaning or meaningless of activities, again feels a bit too self-important. But if one needs meaning to let go of relative thinking then say its meaningfull and get on with it, if one needs no meaning to let go of both meaning and non-meaning then say its meaningless and go on with it.

You are spending a lot of time spinning words you don't believe.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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fuki
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Zen forums must be very silent then.
Relatively, yes.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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fuki
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:58 pm
You are spending a lot of time spinning words you don't believe.
Haha, I believe in everything!
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

Jeff H
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by Jeff H » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:50 pm

Well my grandson and I were reading some comics over breakfast this morning and we found the answer. I'm happy to report that the meaning of life is seafood.

Seafood.jpg
Seafood.jpg (252.48 KiB) Viewed 364 times

So now this thread has lost its meaning for me. :thumbsup:
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

boda
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by boda » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:30 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:48 am
Worldly life and mundane concerns are meaningless. I think that's all that is being said.
I believe that an honest claim would be that we value both mundane and religious or spiritual life, with some favoring one or the other. Monks, for example, would seem to favor the latter.

The extreme polarization expressed in this topic is strange and unexpected.

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fuki
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Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Anatman

Post by fuki » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:37 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:50 pm
Well my grandson and I were reading some comics over breakfast this morning and we found the answer. I'm happy to report that the meaning of life is seafood.


Seafood.jpg


So now this thread has lost its meaning for me. :thumbsup:
jhythgr.png
jhythgr.png (275.15 KiB) Viewed 319 times
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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