Where are 1% of Americans?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Ricky » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm

Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6396
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm

Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm
Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.
Keep the poor whites and poor blacks at each other's throats so they don't stop to realize this guy is screwing them both:
Image
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Ricky » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:38 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm
Keep the poor whites and poor blacks at each other's throats so they don't stop to realize this guy is screwing them both:
Image
That's exactly what it is. If poor whites and blacks can unite it would be a powerful force.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28566
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:08 am

Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:38 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm
Keep the poor whites and poor blacks at each other's throats so they don't stop to realize this guy is screwing them both:
Image
That's exactly what it is. If poor whites and blacks can unite it would be a powerful force.
This is why poor whites historically have been given privileges denied to poor blacks, in order to keep them from joining forces. This practice in the US goes back to the 18th century as as deliberate policy. When poor whites feel superior to black people merely for being white, they will have no reason to join with blacks and every reason to cooperate with white elites in the suppression and exploitation of blacks, latinos, asians, native peoples —— the evidence of this is written in blood in the pages of US history. The Italians and Irish eventually managed to become white, but they were not regarded as "white" until after WWII. Jews didn't make it into the white club until the '70's.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Sennin
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Sennin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:42 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 am


yeah, i'm sure. i've ended up watching MSNBC's Lockup:Oakland tonight lol

excuse the foul language, but it's a good song ;)


Oh snap :cheers:
Shhh, look...a crystal!

Sennin
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Sennin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:43 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:08 am
Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:38 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm
Keep the poor whites and poor blacks at each other's throats so they don't stop to realize this guy is screwing them both:
Image
That's exactly what it is. If poor whites and blacks can unite it would be a powerful force.
This is why poor whites historically have been given privileges denied to poor blacks, in order to keep them from joining forces. This practice in the US goes back to the 18th century as as deliberate policy. When poor whites feel superior to black people merely for being white, they will have no reason to join with blacks and every reason to cooperate with white elites in the suppression and exploitation of blacks, latinos, asians, native peoples —— the evidence of this is written in blood in the pages of US history. The Italians and Irish eventually managed to become white, but they were not regarded as "white" until after WWII. Jews didn't make it into the white club until the '70's.
Pretty much, it's a power play type situation.
Shhh, look...a crystal!

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8367
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:07 am

Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm
Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.
Yep, very accurate statement IMO. it's perfectly ok in some circles to be classist as long as it's towards disenfranchised poor white people, I'm amazed by some of the things I've heard my supposedly liberal acquaintances say in this vein.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28566
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:13 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:07 am
Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm
Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.
Yep, very accurate statement IMO. it's perfectly ok in some circles to be classist as long as it's towards disenfranchised poor white people, I'm amazed by some of the things I've heard my supposedly liberal acquaintances say in this vein.
Unlike blackness, asianess, latinoness, and so on, whiteness is an ever expanding category commensurate with socioeconomic success. So frankly, I don’t have much sympathy for those who try and play the white trash card as if being poor and white in the USA is an unendurable burden with no way out, and which is exempt from white privilege— cause it ain’t.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8367
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:30 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:13 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:07 am
Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm
Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.
Yep, very accurate statement IMO. it's perfectly ok in some circles to be classist as long as it's towards disenfranchised poor white people, I'm amazed by some of the things I've heard my supposedly liberal acquaintances say in this vein.
Unlike blackness, asianess, latinoness, and so on, whiteness is an ever expanding category commensurate with socioeconomic success. So frankly, I don’t have much sympathy for those who try and play the white trash card as if being poor and white in the USA is an unendurable burden with no way out, and which is exempt from white privilege— cause it ain’t.
It seems like you missed the main point of my post, but i'll bite I guess. There are plenty of white people (both urban and rural) low down enough of the socioeconomic ladder, with no prospects for education, work or betterment, whose communities are often dogged by the exact same plagues as minorities in a similar socioeconomic place, such that their "white privilege" amounts to a whole HELL of a lot less than their status as lumpen proletariat does. I acknowledge that whiteness even for them does carry some very marginal advantages, but the salient point is that at the lower you go, the amount of advantage it carries becomes close to trivial.


The main point for me is basically that evaluating oppression etc. based primarily on race, without any class analysis is just silly, it creates discrete categories that don't actually exist.

Beyond that, I was actually responding to self-described "liberal" people I know (I'm starting to like the term McResistance) making fun of "toothless hillbillies" and "white trash" in a way they would never dream of talking about minorities, for good reason - because it's a terrible way to see any people. Hopefully you understand that regardless of what one wants to think of white privilege, that is some hypocritical behavior. That was actually the point of my post, so I am not sure why you took that as some simplistic claim that whiteness provides no advantages.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

climb-up
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by climb-up » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:16 pm

This is a facebook post shared by a friend:
Attachments
Picture 2.png
Picture 2.png (54.7 KiB) Viewed 511 times

climb-up
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by climb-up » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:19 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:30 am

Beyond that, I was actually responding to self-described "liberal" people I know (I'm starting to like the term McResistance) making fun of "toothless hillbillies" and "white trash" in a way they would never dream of talking about minorities, for good reason - because it's a terrible way to see any people. Hopefully you understand that regardless of what one wants to think of white privilege, that is some hypocritical behavior. That was actually the point of my post, so I am not sure why you took that as some simplistic claim that whiteness provides no advantages.
Good points.

climb-up
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by climb-up » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm
Ricky wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:11 pm
Classism is also a big problem in the states. Terms like "white trash" and "hillbilly" are always being thrown out to describe poorer whites by upper class whites. Minorities on the other are being tormented for being minorities and lower class.
Keep the poor whites and poor blacks at each other's throats so they don't stop to realize this guy is screwing them both:
Image
Has anyone seen or read "White Like Me" by Tim Wise?
He breaks down precisely the above and explains how the prison system was specifically designed to maintain slavery (as, I assume, the netflix show referenced above, but I haven't watched it yet). He had a good quote, which I can't recall, but basically cited a bunch of statistics about the prison system and said it was clear that the prison system was a total failure...
...IF you think it has anything to do with trying to stop crime.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28566
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:01 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:30 am

It seems like you missed the main point of my post, but i'll bite I guess. There are plenty of white people (both urban and rural) low down enough of the socioeconomic ladder, with no prospects for education, work or betterment, whose communities are often dogged by the exact same plagues as minorities in a similar socioeconomic place, such that their "white privilege" amounts to a whole HELL of a lot less than their status as lumpen proletariat does. I acknowledge that whiteness even for them does carry some very marginal advantages, but the salient point is that at the lower you go, the amount of advantage it carries becomes close to trivial.
I don't agree. Poor whites have been systematically advantaged over others since the 18th century in law and custom in the US.
The main point for me is basically that evaluating oppression etc. based primarily on race, without any class analysis is just silly, it creates discrete categories that don't actually exist.
And thus Bernie Sanders lost the primary, largely because of this kind of thinking. Bernie lost the black vote because of his inability to overcome his habit of thinking in terms of class rather than race.
Beyond that, I was actually responding to self-described "liberal" people I know (I'm starting to like the term McResistance) making fun of "toothless hillbillies" and "white trash" in a way they would never dream of talking about minorities, for good reason - because it's a terrible way to see any people.
The right rather likes portraying itself as the party of white trash and toothless hillbillies. They have even devoted a whole segment of reality TV shows virtue signaling white trashiness— Duck Dynasty, Sarah Palin, and so on — which deliberately and cynically play into this stereotype for $$$ and votes in order to create a false sense that white people experience systematic socioeconomic depression (they don't).
Hopefully you understand that regardless of what one wants to think of white privilege, that is some hypocritical behavior.


It is stupid for people to fall into that trap, since it is a trap that has been very skillfully set out to snare liberals by the right. It is also naive to imagine that this image has not been deliberately cultivated by the right since Obama was elected, as a kind of counter identity politics, a.k.a, the Tea Party.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Mantrik » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:30 pm

My experience in the UK is that facts really don't matter; so I'll just say what I am detecting:

Poor whites and poor blacks and poor asians all feel they are treated worst of all, have the least privileges, suffer the most discrimination etc.

These things ebb and flow, but after terrorist attacks it has been easy for politicians and others to galvanise poor whites into everything from voting for far right extremism to white gang vigilante actions. The presence of unemployed EU immigrants claiming social benefits and housing denied to others has played its part.
In a 'chicken and egg' situation, black and asian gang activity has become a major urban issue.

Young black males are disproportionately represented in UK jails. More of them are subjected to 'stop and search'..............and just maybe it is because most of the crimes are committed by people who fit that profile. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, our 'justice' system lets off pretty white girls who stab people because jail may harm their careers. We really are not far away from Hicksville, USA.

The Brexit vote was partly a manifestation of the fear and dislike of immigrants. A few think immigration has become uncontrolled and voted becuase of that. Others, however, just don't want those with dark skins and who don't speak English and have 'foreign' religions. They probably think Trump is a hero. At the moment illegal immigrants are released and asked to attend court....but how long before we, like the US, clap everyone in jail who annoys us.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8367
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:43 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:30 pm
My experience in the UK is that facts really don't matter; so I'll just say what I am detecting:

Poor whites and poor blacks and poor asians all feel they are treated worst of all, have the least privileges, suffer the most discrimination etc.

These things ebb and flow, but after terrorist attacks it has been easy for politicians and others to galvanise poor whites into everything from voting for far right extremism to white gang vigilante actions. The presence of unemployed EU immigrants claiming social benefits and housing denied to others has played its part.
In a 'chicken and egg' situation, black and asian gang activity has become a major urban issue.

Young black males are disproportionately represented in UK jails. More of them are subjected to 'stop and search'..............and just maybe it is because most of the crimes are committed by people who fit that profile. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, our 'justice' system lets off pretty white girls who stab people because jail may harm their careers. We really are not far away from Hicksville, USA.

The Brexit vote was partly a manifestation of the fear and dislike of immigrants. A few think immigration has become uncontrolled and voted becuase of that. Others, however, just don't want those with dark skins and who don't speak English and have 'foreign' religions. They probably think Trump is a hero. At the moment illegal immigrants are released and asked to attend court....but how long before we, like the US, clap everyone in jail who annoys us.
Depends on who stands to make a buck off mass incarceration!
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28566
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:30 pm
My experience in the UK is that facts really don't matter; so I'll just say what I am detecting:

Poor whites and poor blacks and poor asians all feel they are treated worst of all, have the least privileges, suffer the most discrimination etc.

These things ebb and flow, but after terrorist attacks it has been easy for politicians and others to galvanise poor whites into everything from voting for far right extremism to white gang vigilante actions. The presence of unemployed EU immigrants claiming social benefits and housing denied to others has played its part.
In a 'chicken and egg' situation, black and asian gang activity has become a major urban issue.

Young black males are disproportionately represented in UK jails. More of them are subjected to 'stop and search'..............and just maybe it is because most of the crimes are committed by people who fit that profile. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, our 'justice' system lets off pretty white girls who stab people because jail may harm their careers. We really are not far away from Hicksville, USA.

The Brexit vote was partly a manifestation of the fear and dislike of immigrants. A few think immigration has become uncontrolled and voted becuase of that. Others, however, just don't want those with dark skins and who don't speak English and have 'foreign' religions. They probably think Trump is a hero.

Well, in the US, poor whites are mainly pissed because they feel, wrongly, that their privilege has been eroded by 1) policies which enable the advancement of black people and 2) a shrinking demographic. Meanwhile, since Reagan, education funding in what we call red states has been stripped to the bone, and since in red states they historically depress property taxes and so on to attract retirees and industry, they cannot fund schools themselves. They imagine, wrongly, that they are being cheated, that their taxes are being squandered (they are, they just are blaming the wrong folks), and that all their problems lie in Washington, which is bullshit. Their problems are local, and a result of their own penchant for voting up guns and Jesus and voting down education, birth control, gun control, higher taxes on property and so on, they have basically screwed themselves, and things won't get better until they understand how pernicious the GOP vision for the USA actually is.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
fuki
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:51 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by fuki » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Malcolm wrote: Well, in the US, poor whites are mainly pissed because they feel, wrongly, that their privilege has been eroded by 1) policies which enable the advancement of black people and 2) a shrinking demographic. Meanwhile, since Reagan, education funding in what we call red states has been stripped to the bone, and since in red states they historically depress property taxes and so on to attract retirees and industry, they cannot fund schools themselves. They imagine, wrongly, that they are being cheated, that their taxes are being squandered (they are, they just are blaming the wrong folks), and that all their problems lie in Washington, which is bullshit. Their problems are local, and a result of their own penchant for voting up guns and Jesus and voting down education, birth control, gun control, higher taxes on property and so on, they have basically screwed themselves, and things won't get better until they understand how pernicious the GOP vision for the USA actually is.
Thanks Malcolm

:good:
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Mantrik » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 pm


Well, in the US, poor whites are mainly pissed because they feel, wrongly, that their privilege has been eroded by 1) policies which enable the advancement of black people and 2) a shrinking demographic. Meanwhile, since Reagan, education funding in what we call red states has been stripped to the bone, and since in red states they historically depress property taxes and so on to attract retirees and industry, they cannot fund schools themselves. They imagine, wrongly, that they are being cheated, that their taxes are being squandered (they are, they just are blaming the wrong folks), and that all their problems lie in Washington, which is bullshit. Their problems are local, and a result of their own penchant for voting up guns and Jesus and voting down education, birth control, gun control, higher taxes on property and so on, they have basically screwed themselves, and things won't get better until they understand how pernicious the GOP vision for the USA actually is.
That is scarily familiar, apart from the guns. Nationalism here trumps Jesus, so that's what they use.

For example, our state National Health Service is being dismantled by the Govt, but they can blame the elderly and the poor for putting too much strain on it, of course. So the poor transfer the blame onto ethnic groups which differ from themselves.

Emergency services are similarly affected, and the blame there can also end up on immigrants.......whereas in reality it is immigrant labour which keeps hospitals afloat.

As with the US, we really need a change of regime. Sadly, politics has become polarised and the left is now virtually communist and sees Venezuela as a role model, so we are between a rock and a hard place.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28566
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are 1% of Americans?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:14 pm


As with the US, we really need a change of regime. Sadly, politics has become polarised and the left is now virtually communist and sees Venezuela as a role model, so we are between a rock and a hard place.
Hopefully, November will usher this in.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Post Reply

Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: weitsicht and 18 guests