What is a Man?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Queequeg
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:56 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:37 pm
A man is someone born into the male gender.
When I was a student, I interned with a labor law firm that counted many Teamsters locals as their clients (for those who may not know, the Teamsters is the name for the union representing truck drivers and warehousemen). This was one of the war stories I heard one of the attorneys tell.

A foreman in one of the locals apparently was a 6'2" man who wore dresses. I don't know what the PC nomenclature is for that.

He/She wanted to use the women's bathroom and the employer didn't want to permit it. This was twenty or so years ago before all this gender stuff became what it is now. The dispute ended up in binding arbitration, as required for almost all disputes arising under a collective bargaining agreement. The arbitrator himself was a grizzled old fella who had been in the trucking industry since Jimmy Hoffa was alive. The sides made their opening statements and then the arbitrator looked at the foreman and asked, "Do you stand or sit?"

The foreman wasn't expecting the question and stammered, "I stand."

The arbitrator said, "You use the men's bathroom."
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Malcolm
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:56 pm

He/She wanted to use the women's bathroom and the employer didn't want to permit it. This was twenty or so years ago before all this gender stuff became what it is now. The dispute ended up in binding arbitration, as required for almost all disputes arising under a collective bargaining agreement. The arbitrator himself was a grizzled old fella who had been in the trucking industry since Jimmy Hoffa was alive. The sides made their opening statements and then the arbitrator looked at the foreman and asked, "Do you stand or sit?"

The foreman wasn't expecting the question and stammered, "I stand."

The arbitrator said, "You use the men's bathroom."
Oh, by that standard Buddhist monks have to use the lady's room. They are required to squat or sit when urinating. No pulling up the robes and standing...
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Mantrik
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:49 pm
nonbinary gendered people were incapable of being a basis for receiving Buddhist discipline.
'Nonbinary gendered' .............

This definition applies only to a handful of people each year born with both male and female genitalia. Hermaphroditism isn't a dirty word.

Good that the ancient folk thought of them, but I can't help thinking you are applying a modern trendy term very inaccurately.......you mean those who think of themselves as 'nonbinary gendered' and may behave that way, rather than people who actually are.

The modern gender creation industry should not be encouraged by using their invented fantasies as if they are in any way applicable.
Last edited by Mantrik on Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Queequeg
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:59 pm
Oh, by that standard Buddhist monks have to use the lady's room. They are required to squat or sit when urinating. No pulling up the robes and standing...
Well, urinating in one of those squats can get kind of messy... that's quite a bit of vertical to a hard surface.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Mantrik
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:59 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:56 pm

He/She wanted to use the women's bathroom and the employer didn't want to permit it. This was twenty or so years ago before all this gender stuff became what it is now. The dispute ended up in binding arbitration, as required for almost all disputes arising under a collective bargaining agreement. The arbitrator himself was a grizzled old fella who had been in the trucking industry since Jimmy Hoffa was alive. The sides made their opening statements and then the arbitrator looked at the foreman and asked, "Do you stand or sit?"

The foreman wasn't expecting the question and stammered, "I stand."

The arbitrator said, "You use the men's bathroom."
Oh, by that standard Buddhist monks have to use the lady's room. They are required to squat or sit when urinating. No pulling up the robes and standing...
Never been to Tibet. Traditionally, squat hole-in-the floor? In India, squatting for men avoids spraying piss all over the walls........or is that just me? :)
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Grigoris
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:52 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:39 pm

In some more radical extremist corners today, this Buddhist point of view would be regarded as hate-speech and as an act of violence...
In other parts of the world, just being a Buddhist may very well get you killed.
In those parts of the world your mere existence is enough to get you killed, whether you are Buddhist or not.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:36 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:02 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:49 pm
nonbinary gendered people were incapable of being a basis for receiving Buddhist discipline.
'Nonbinary gendered' .............
"Nonbinary" is the direct translation of the Tibetan term for such folks, ma ning.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Quay
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Quay » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:41 pm

This is Violet Chachki. He may be more man than most here and more woman than any will ever see or get.

Image
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Mantrik
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:36 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:02 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:49 pm
nonbinary gendered people were incapable of being a basis for receiving Buddhist discipline.
'Nonbinary gendered' .............
"Nonbinary" is the direct translation of the Tibetan term for such folks, ma ning.
In that context containing the unity of both? As with Mahakala Maning.

'Nonbinary' seems to mean unable to identify as either, which is a different thing of very modern coinage.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Grigoris
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:45 pm

Image

Image
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:48 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:42 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:36 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:02 pm


'Nonbinary gendered' .............
"Nonbinary" is the direct translation of the Tibetan term for such folks, ma ning.
In that context containing the unity of both? As with Mahakala Maning.

'Nonbinary' seems to mean unable to identify as either, which is a different thing of very modern coinage.
Not really.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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dzogchungpa
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm

Honestly, I think it's about time we all started ma ning up.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's about time we all started ma ning up.
Mahakala Maning is a eunuch, so unless you have no need for your family jewels...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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dzogchungpa
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's about time we all started ma ning up.
Mahakala Maning is a eunuch, so unless you have no need for your family jewels...

Sorry, that was autocorrect.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Mantrik
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:16 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's about time we all started ma ning up.
Mahakala Maning is a eunuch, so unless you have no need for your family jewels...
Inaccurate. Maning combines both male and female attributes. Not the same as a male eunuch.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Malcolm
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's about time we all started ma ning up.
Mahakala Maning is a eunuch, so unless you have no need for your family jewels...
Actually, this is a mistake made frequently by Western translators who do not understand the meaning as they have not received teachings on this form of Mahakala. Maning in Maning Gonpo refers to nonduality, and also the fact that it is the source of all the other Mahakala emanations.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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dzogchungpa
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:49 am

I guess we need a "What is a Maning?" thread now.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Karma Dorje
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Karma Dorje » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:20 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:35 pm
I'm going for Christian Grey.
That's funny, I had you picked out as more of a Dorian.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Karma Dorje
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Karma Dorje » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:27 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Grigoris
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Re: What is a Man?

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:16 am

Sorry for any misinformation about Mahakala Maning, I got the info from himalayanart.org which normally is quite good.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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