Wiccan arts and the Mahayana

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
amanitamusc
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:37 am

You can find a qualified teacher of Bhuddhadharma .

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pueraeternus
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:45 am

What do you really want to achieve in Wicca? Do you want to be able to perform magick, or you like the idea of being in a coven and don't really need to achieve any mastery? If the first, then you can't really do it as a hobby or part time, since it takes a lot of study and effort to develop those abilities. You won't be able to be a part time Purelander as well since that takes dedication (unless you want to be like the weekend and holy days temple aunties).
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

MatthewAngby
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by MatthewAngby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 am

pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:45 am
What do you really want to achieve in Wicca? Do you want to be able to perform magick, or you like the idea of being in a coven and don't really need to achieve any mastery? If the first, then you can't really do it as a hobby or part time, since it takes a lot of study and effort to develop those abilities. You won't be able to be a part time Purelander as well since that takes dedication (unless you want to be like the weekend and holy days temple aunties).
For pureland - when I say I am purelander, I mean I am going to recite Amitabha name every day only. So leaves me with time for wicca.

For Wicca - just want to achieve magic and just entertain myself with it. Also being in a coven makes me feel so mysterious.
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

MatthewAngby
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by MatthewAngby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:48 am

And Wicca to me will just be like learning Swimming - another hobby to me.
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

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pueraeternus
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am

You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:59 am

pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
:good:

MatthewAngby
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure landek

Post by MatthewAngby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am

pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
What do you mean? I can’t get to sukhavati even if I chant Amitabha Buddha Everyday? It’s just, I know I am not well prepared for learning the true Buddhism this life , so I hope I can be born in sukhavati where everything is easier. Also, since this might be the last time I ever get interested in magic , I very well will use this last life to get my goals before I become a 8 Bhumi Bodhisattva in pure land. Is that right?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

ItsRaining
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure landek

Post by ItsRaining » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:21 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am
pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
What do you mean? I can’t get to sukhavati even if I chant Amitabha Buddha Everyday? It’s just, I know I am not well prepared for learning the true Buddhism this life , so I hope I can be born in sukhavati where everything is easier. Also, since this might be the last time I ever get interested in magic , I very well will use this last life to get my goals before I become a 8 Bhumi Bodhisattva in pure land. Is that right?
There are a lot of Buddhism in Singapore right? Have you tried looking for Pureland teachings?

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:26 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:54 am
Well as the tile goes . I found a coven in my land Singapore ( a witches coven) not sure if they allow me. Anyways I also became a pure lander, it’s easier that way.

Yesterday , some of y’all asked me to be honest with myself , what do I really want ? Learning that all forms of Buddhism don’t have magic as the core ( as far as I know ), I started inclining to the pure land tradition. In that way, I Guess I can become a warlock ( white ) and be a pure lander too. In that way , it’s a win-win situation for me.

Does any of you here think it’s a good idea? Any Buddhist or wicca might wanna tell me something ?
Sounds like a terrible idea, to be honest. If you are interested in "magick", you should examine why exactly. If the answers you come up with are something altrusitic and wholesome, then such things certainly exists within various Buddhist traditions, and within the Bon traditions also. If the answer is "because it's cool" or "because I will get power", then you should question your motivations in the first place.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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liuzg150181
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by liuzg150181 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:27 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:54 am
Well as the tile goes . I found a coven in my land Singapore ( a witches coven) not sure if they allow me. Anyways I also became a pure lander, it’s easier that way.

Yesterday , some of y’all asked me to be honest with myself , what do I really want ? Learning that all forms of Buddhism don’t have magic as the core ( as far as I know ), I started inclining to the pure land tradition. In that way, I Guess I can become a warlock ( white ) and be a pure lander too. In that way , it’s a win-win situation for me.

Does any of you here think it’s a good idea? Any Buddhist or wicca might wanna tell me something ?
Given your thread here and past ones,I believe you have suffered from Chuunibyuu syndrome:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... Chuunibyou
" Japanese slang term which roughly translates to "Middle School 2nd Year Syndrome". People with chuunibyou either act like a know-it-all adult and look down on real ones, or believe they have special powers unlike others.

This is a common stage in growth; for most people, it happens--you guessed it--around the 2nd year of middle school (Grade 8 in Japan). However, the problem is, there are some grown-ups who have this symptom.
There are 3 main types of Chuunibyou. DQN-type pretends to be antisocial even though they aren't, or can't be and has made-up stories about antisocial behavior. Subculture-type prefers subculture or minor trends just to be different and have the "cool" factor. Evil Eye-Type admires mystical powers and pretends to have one of their own, to the extent of establishing an alias just for that.
And if you think you have one of these or want more information in the subject, a good idea is to read the "Chuunibyou User Manual" (中二病取扱説明書, Chuunibyou Toriatsukai Setsumei Sho) by Saegami HYŌYA."

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liuzg150181
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure landek

Post by liuzg150181 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:31 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am
pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
What do you mean? I can’t get to sukhavati even if I chant Amitabha Buddha Everyday? It’s just, I know I am not well prepared for learning the true Buddhism this life , so I hope I can be born in sukhavati where everything is easier. Also, since this might be the last time I ever get interested in magic , I very well will use this last life to get my goals before I become a 8 Bhumi Bodhisattva in pure land. Is that right?
You need to take and understand what taking refuge in Triple Gem meant to start with. Along with all the foundations of BuddhaDharma. That applies to Pureland teaching too.

shaunc
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Re: Wiccan arts and the Mahayana

Post by shaunc » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:32 am

In the past and in some cultures today all a witch is, is what west would call a herbalist.
My wife is a filipina from a small fishing village in northern Cebu in the Philippine islands. Her sister, now deceased, was the witch doctor in her village. She was basically a first-aider, mid-wife, herbalist, naturopath all rolled into one. It isn't a religion, it's a trade that she learned from her grandmother. Her religion like 90% of phillipinos was Catholic.

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pueraeternus
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure landek

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:39 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am
pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
What do you mean? I can’t get to sukhavati even if I chant Amitabha Buddha Everyday? It’s just, I know I am not well prepared for learning the true Buddhism this life , so I hope I can be born in sukhavati where everything is easier. Also, since this might be the last time I ever get interested in magic , I very well will use this last life to get my goals before I become a 8 Bhumi Bodhisattva in pure land. Is that right?
You can't get to Sukhavati merely by chanting. It is not that easy to reach a pureland, even Amitabha's. You have to have Refuge. You have to observe the Five Precepts and practice the Ten Deeds. You have to have generated Bodhichitta even if you may not fully understand it. And you must have absolute faith in Amitabha. The most important factors are a really good heart, great endeavour in doing good for others, Refuge and fully embrace the practice of chanting his mantra - you have to be 100% committed so that you can enter at least a lesser form of absorption. And even then, you might not end up in Sukhavati, but your practice will definitely bring you to a higher rebirth, and the momentum will drive you to encounter and practice the dharma in your next life.

It will indeed be easier once you get to Sukhavati, but to get there first takes work, takes commitment and takes great faith. You may have to try several attempts over lifetimes.

For magick, to really have any hope of achievement, it takes commitment too - this is not something you can do on the side. Some people practice for decades and nothing really happens, except for a mass of delusions they have accumulated over the years. Some may gain some power after a few years of focused effort. So the question is - what is more important to you, and what is more important in the long run in your view? Such questions are not easy to answer and you must probe and answer them yourself. And what is the point of gaining magickal power? There is always the risk that people who are not spiritually and ethically mature gain some power, they incur massive karmic debt from harming others with it. If you really want to go the path of Wicca, take heed the Rule of Three and the Wiccan Rede. There is also no chance of enlightenment of any sort in Wicca - it is purely a worldly path.

Siddhis can also be attained in Buddhadharma - it does take more effort, but it is attainable.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

MatthewAngby
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure landek

Post by MatthewAngby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:48 am

pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:39 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am
pueraeternus wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 am
You cannot achieve much mastery in Wicca as a hobby. If you do so, you can at most be not too bad at divination, but that's it. If you want to truly have some achievement in magick, you will have to do a lot of preliminary practice every day and learn all the basics. Then maybe some of your spells will work.

Chanting Amitabha everyday is good, but it won't make you a purelander since the key question is - do you really have Refuge? What's the reason you want to chant Amitabha everyday? As a insurance policy to get to the Sukhavati? It won't be enough.
What do you mean? I can’t get to sukhavati even if I chant Amitabha Buddha Everyday? It’s just, I know I am not well prepared for learning the true Buddhism this life , so I hope I can be born in sukhavati where everything is easier. Also, since this might be the last time I ever get interested in magic , I very well will use this last life to get my goals before I become a 8 Bhumi Bodhisattva in pure land. Is that right?
You can't get to Sukhavati merely by chanting. It is not that easy to reach a pureland, even Amitabha's. You have to have Refuge. You have to observe the Five Precepts and practice the Ten Deeds. You have to have generated Bodhichitta even if you may not fully understand it. And you must have absolute faith in Amitabha. The most important factors are a really good heart, great endeavour in doing good for others, Refuge and fully embrace the practice of chanting his mantra - you have to be 100% committed so that you can enter at least a lesser form of absorption. And even then, you might not end up in Sukhavati, but your practice will definitely bring you to a higher rebirth, and the momentum will drive you to encounter and practice the dharma in your next life.

It will indeed be easier once you get to Sukhavati, but to get there first takes work, takes commitment and takes great faith. You may have to try several attempts over lifetimes.

For magick, to really have any hope of achievement, it takes commitment too - this is not something you can do on the side. Some people practice for decades and nothing really happens, except for a mass of delusions they have accumulated over the years. Some may gain some power after a few years of focused effort. So the question is - what is more important to you, and what is more important in the long run in your view? Such questions are not easy to answer and you must probe and answer them yourself. And what is the point of gaining magickal power? There is always the risk that people who are not spiritually and ethically mature gain some power, they incur massive karmic debt from harming others with it. If you really want to go the path of Wicca, take heed the Rule of Three and the Wiccan Rede. There is also no chance of enlightenment of any sort in Wicca - it is purely a worldly path.

Siddhis can also be attained in Buddhadharma - it does take more effort, but it is attainable.
I know.. but even if I have it, i probably won’t be interested in using the siddhis anymore. I just wanna have an experience of playing around with it:
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

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pueraeternus
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:00 am

You may never have much spectacular success in Wicca. Frankly speaking, for all the effort put into it, what you get out of it is not worth a fraction of what you put into Dharma practice. Practicing Dharma guarantees a positive effect, but practicing Wicca does not. It can be, but chances are not that great.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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anjali
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by anjali » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:23 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:54 am
...
Does any of you here think it’s a good idea? Any Buddhist or wicca might wanna tell me something ?
Hi, Matthew. It's not something I would do, but you are you, and you have to live your life as you see fit.

Two things I'll offer for your consideration. First, whatever connection you make to the Dharma is good! And the deeper your connection with the Dharma, the better. Lukewarm practice leads to lukewarm results. Second, and related to the first, eventually you will have to decide where your true refuge lies. I will leave you with a quote to consider,
Amidst the clouds of impermanence and illusion,
The lightning of life dances:
Are you sure you won't die tomorrow?
Death is unavoidable, so practice the Dharma!
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Wherever there is a human being, there is an opportunity for kindness. –-Seneca

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SonamTashi
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by SonamTashi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:20 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:54 am
Well as the tile goes . I found a coven in my land Singapore ( a witches coven) not sure if they allow me. Anyways I also became a pure lander, it’s easier that way.

Yesterday , some of y’all asked me to be honest with myself , what do I really want ? Learning that all forms of Buddhism don’t have magic as the core ( as far as I know ), I started inclining to the pure land tradition. In that way, I Guess I can become a warlock ( white ) and be a pure lander too. In that way , it’s a win-win situation for me.

Does any of you here think it’s a good idea? Any Buddhist or wicca might wanna tell me something ?
I'm not sure it is possible to be a Pure Lander and a Wiccan. Refuge is very important in Pure Land Buddhism. As a Pure Land Buddhist, you should take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and the Sangha, and specifically Amitabha. Wicca requires you to take refuge under two different gods, the Horned God and the Mother Goddess. IMO this is a basic conflict that can't be resolved. You have to choose one or the other.

You really should think about why you want to go to Sukhavati and practice Buddhism, as well as why you want to practice magic. If you want to go to Sukhavati because it sounds nice, or because you want to learn cool tricks, then you will not gain rebirth there. It requires development of Bodhicitta, which in Pure Land Buddhism means wanting to go to the Pure Land so you can help all beings reach the Pure Land and Buddhahood as well. You have to actually altruistically want to help others, not just perform cool magic tricks.

It sounds like you really just want to learn tricks, and if that's what you want to do, then that's up to you. You've been posting so frequently about so many different practices it has been hard to keep up. What motivated you to step away from Vajrayana? You should think about why you're bouncing around so quickly between all of these different traditions.

I think it would be a good idea for you to spend a good amount of time learning about all of these traditions before making any commitments. First, to decide what you really want, and then see if any of these practices line up with that. Right now it is like you're trying to shove cogs in holes without checking to see which shape lines up with what. Slow down and take the time to analyze all of these different practices so you can make an informed decision.
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:

MiphamFan
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by MiphamFan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:44 am

There is more magic in Vajrayana than all these modern Western magical systems.

MatthewAngby
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by MatthewAngby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:51 am

MiphamFan wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:44 am
There is more magic in Vajrayana than all these modern Western magical systems.
Asked my resident lama today - he said no magic involved in vajrayana ( as far as I know ) - kinda why I backed out from it.
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

MiphamFan
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Re: Officially being a Wiccan and pure lander

Post by MiphamFan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:54 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:51 am
MiphamFan wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:44 am
There is more magic in Vajrayana than all these modern Western magical systems.
Asked my resident lama today - he said no magic involved in vajrayana ( as far as I know ) - kinda why I backed out from it.
He wouldn't call it "magic" because "magic" is associated with black magic.

But rites to summon spirits, offerings to spirits, obtaining magical powers (siddhis) etc are all magic.

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