Fantasy

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Grigoris
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Re: Fantasy

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:35 am

beer wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:53 am
"I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fantasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and wear chubpas and ornaments."
What is the cause of this?
Karma.
Why do some practitioners think and act this way?
Why do you care?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Vasana
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Re: Fantasy

Post by Vasana » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:45 am

beer wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:53 am
beer wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:20 am
I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fanttasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and vwear chubpas and ornaments.. Others act wildly and say what ever comes into there mind. They think they arre being spontaneous and beyond right and wrong. They talk about emptiness and tantra and give out advice like they are some kind of authority. Others talk about their teachers as if they know the eachers mind.

[...]Whats the use of all this complicated philosophy and esoteric practice if you cant even be a good human being?
"I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fantasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and wear chubpas and ornaments."
What is the cause of this?
Why do some practitioners think and act this way?
Beer, believe it or not, this kind of thing was warned of many centuries ago. It's not Breaking News. Padmasambava and countless others warned about fake practitioners and charlatans. Machig Lapdron spoke at length about how people corrupt themselves, others and the teachings in the degenerate age. Your criticisms are valid but are not in any way news for most of us here.

Chogyam Trungpa called it spiritual materialism which basically means even spirituality and the dharma can become another way of indulging in an ego-trip. Some people start on an ego-trip and then the dharma works it's magic and humbles them. Some people are not so easily humbled and their spiritual-ego keeps building upon it's self. Even very humble or sincere practioners can experience a sense of egoic inflation when their life or practice seems to be going well. It's just how the ego works. This doesn't mean we condone it and become passive. It just means we work on what we can and help those who we can when we can. Everything else is our own neurosis.

I'm not sure what kind of discussion you are looking for here. Do you want people to agree with you that there are some less than sincere practioners out there? To acknowledge hypocrisy and ethical inconsistency among humans and dharma practioners? Sure thing, it's a given. Now what?
beer wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:53 am
Some say they are dakini"s and wear chubpas and ornaments."
What is the cause of this?
Why do some practitioners think and act this way?
Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche on this topic:
http://quotes.justdharma.com/conditione ... -rinpoche/
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Bristollad
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Re: Fantasy

Post by Bristollad » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:16 am

beer wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:53 am
"I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fantasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and wear chubpas and ornaments."
What is the cause of this?
Why do some practitioners think and act this way?
Aren't we all of us ordinary beings living in samsara, a fantasy maintained by the ignorance grasping to the self of persons and self of phenomena? For some, wearing chubpas and ornaments will be bolstering the fantasy, but for everyone? Why would I think my own understanding of the fantasy is sufficient to be able to determine the level of practice of another?

What I can do is observe my own shit, work on my own shit and help others to the best of my ability using as much wisdom as I can to try to not make matters worse.

DharmaN00b
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Re: Fantasy

Post by DharmaN00b » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:02 pm

"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again."


Alexander Pope :cheers:

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The Cicada
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Re: Fantasy

Post by The Cicada » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:06 pm

Bristollad wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:16 am
beer wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:53 am
"I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fantasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and wear chubpas and ornaments."
What is the cause of this?
Why do some practitioners think and act this way?
Aren't we all of us ordinary beings living in samsara, a fantasy maintained by the ignorance grasping to the self of persons and self of phenomena? For some, wearing chubpas and ornaments will be bolstering the fantasy, but for everyone? Why would I think my own understanding of the fantasy is sufficient to be able to determine the level of practice of another?

What I can do is observe my own shit, work on my own shit and help others to the best of my ability using as much wisdom as I can to try to not make matters worse.
Of course, depending on the depths of Beer's knowledge of Buddhism, maybe the answer he's looking for is tantra, which can crudely be described as using magic towards the aim of awakening.

madhusudan
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Re: Fantasy

Post by madhusudan » Tue May 01, 2018 2:27 am

The Cicada wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:49 am
madhusudan wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:59 pm
PeterC wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:13 pm
There are many places where if you help someone who has suffered an accident, you run a material risk of being held financially responsible for the accident itself. I don’t know if that’s the case in Nepal but it’s certainly the case, or perceived to be the case in several other countries. So the response may not just be the bystander effect.
From my experience in Nepal I remember there being no right to medical care. It was pay upfront or no care.

When a friend's mother took ill he gathered friends and family and we all pooled money together and went to the hospital with him to donate blood. Without money and blood, you get nothing.
... Isn't Nepal a predominantly Hindu country, not Buddhist?
Yes, though it's also a bit more complicated.

"In Nepal the majority of people identify as Hindu, however, Buddhist influences are pervasive in most aspects of Nepali culture to an extent that Buddhist and Hindu temples are shared places of worship for peoples of both faith so that, unlike, in other countries, the distinction between Hinduism and Buddhism in Nepal is not always clear."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_Nepal

But, I'm having trouble connecting your observation to the point under discussion of bystanders' reactions to a hit-and-run accident at Swayambhunath.

beer
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Fantasy

Post by beer » Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 am

DharmaN00b wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:02 pm
"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again."


Alexander Pope :cheers:
Wow!

beer
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Fantasy

Post by beer » Tue May 01, 2018 2:58 am

beer wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:20 am
I see a lot of so called practitioners living in a fanttasy. People play dress up and act like ngakpa"s or yogini"s. Some say they are dakini"s and vwear chubpas and ornaments.. Others act wildly and say what ever comes into there mind. They think they arre being spontaneous and beyond right and wrong. They talk about emptiness and tantra and give out advice like they are some kind of authority. Others talk about their teachers as if they know the eachers mind. They think they have pure vision and devotion but it is mostly there own projection. People run everwhere after wangs but they dont even know what wang it is, and the comitments they have supposedly taken. So much effort is put into receiving teachings but people just blindly believe what is being said. People simply allow themselves to become brainwashed. Some monks do three yar retreat, serve their teacher and live in retreat places but the try to have sex with every western girl that comes to the retreat place for polgrimage. Othet so called Lama"s sit in palaces whilst beggars sit outside their palace walls People need to wake up. They need to look at themselves and there situation honestly. Most dharma practitioners struggle to be a good citizen, friend or neighbour. Whats the use of all this complicated philosophy and esoteric practice if you cant even be a good human being?
"Others act wildly and say what ever comes into there mind. They think they arre being spontaneous and beyond right and wrong. They talk about emptiness and tantra and give out advice like they are some kind of authority. "

beer
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Fantasy

Post by beer » Tue May 01, 2018 3:10 am

Some members posts in this thread are missing.
Some of my submissions do not yet appear.

I appreciate everyone commenting on these topics. Thank you

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Grigoris
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Re: Fantasy

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 01, 2018 9:06 am

Seems to me that "beer" is just moving this thread around in circles (going so far as to quote himself) looking for validation of his opinions. As this is not happening (and probably not going to happen), I am now going to lock the thread.

If anybody has anything interesting, valid or relevant to add to the discussion, please message me.

Thanks.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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