Young people are loneliest?

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Queequeg
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Young people are loneliest?

Post by Queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 3:10 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... est-burden

This article discusses the prevalence of loneliness in the US, but I know similar phenomena are common in Japan, and I suspect in other developed nations.

As far as I know, there really aren't apps for curing loneliness... if that were possible, young people would not be the loneliest segment of society.

It's of those things that can't be simulated through digital media. There is only the real thing, being in the presence of others, talking, interacting, touching, just breathing the same air.

My interest in this topic is how it relates to Sangha.

Based on personal experience and anecdotal evidence, sanghas seem to be made up of older people.

I wonder if this has to do with the nature of religion, or something to do with the nature of younger people now? Previous generations seem to have been more interested in actual interaction - the sexual revolution was a lot of things, good and bad, but ideally was about exploring human affection and breaking with older awkward norms. This generation in some respects is extraordinary - I'm often impressed with the idealism and openness. So it seems counterintuitive that they would also be lonely.

I feel like communities like sanghas could offer a salve for the loneliness, along with dharmic education. I wonder why the same interest is not here now? Or maybe that's a misperception?

Thoughts?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Virgo
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Virgo » Tue May 01, 2018 3:50 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:10 pm


I wonder if this has to do with the nature of religion, or something to do with the nature of younger people now? Previous generations seem to have been more interested in actual interaction - the sexual revolution was a lot of things, good and bad, but ideally was about exploring human affection and breaking with older awkward norms. This generation in some respects is extraordinary - I'm often impressed with the idealism and openness. So it seems counterintuitive that they would also be lonely.
Millenialls - myself included - and iGen interact with others through social media frequently and it has changed the nature of relationships and socializing. Safety and security is encouraged more in society now, so less roaming the town getting into trouble. Transparency is also big with parents being able to contact children at anytime through theirs phones, and so on. So people stay home more and remain online because of social media and these other factors, among others.

Kevin...

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Tiago Simões » Tue May 01, 2018 4:09 pm

I'd say loneliness comes from a variety of complex issues, and while age can influence it, you will find serious cases of loneliness in all age groups. Younger people tend to isolate themselves from society, while older people tend to be isolated by society itself...
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue May 01, 2018 4:55 pm

It seems reasonable to me that in such densely populated areas of the world, where we cannot escape bumping into one another, loneliness would hardly register and yet this is the case. Go into the 'wilds' on a walking trip and everyone is friendly and polite, but there has to be a specific density. Once that tipping point is reached, platitudes are spared and everyone passes.

One theory about modern people is that we go to extraordinary lengths to please one another, in a world saturated by images (but that is most likely limited to a smaller portion of the world where images hold sway).

Of course it's a lot of hard work to attract people when the core message is "hey everybody look at me!". Even so, it seems this is the price most people pay and "god bless the child that's got his own" as Ms Holiday would cry.

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 01, 2018 5:46 pm

DharmaN00b wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:55 pm
It seems reasonable to me that in such densely populated areas of the world, where we cannot escape bumping into one another, loneliness would hardly register and yet this is the case. Go into the 'wilds' on a walking trip and everyone is friendly and polite, but there has to be a specific density. Once that tipping point is reached, platitudes are spared and everyone passes.

One theory about modern people is that we go to extraordinary lengths to please one another, in a world saturated by images (but that is most likely limited to a smaller portion of the world where images hold sway).

Of course it's a lot of hard work to attract people when the core message is "hey everybody look at me!". Even so, it seems this is the price most people pay and "god bless the child that's got his own" as Ms Holiday would cry.


Shouldn't that be "god bless the child that's got his or her own"? Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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The Cicada
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by The Cicada » Tue May 01, 2018 5:56 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:46 pm
Shouldn't that be "god bless the child that's got his or her own"? Image
Are you excluding non-binary identifying individuals deliberately or unconsciously?

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue May 01, 2018 6:07 pm

“Sometimes to love someone you gotta be a stranger.”



“…blood-black nothingness began to spin / A system of cells interlinked within / Cells interlinked within cells interlinked / Within one stem. And dreadfully distinct / Against the dark, a tall white mountain played.”

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 6:16 pm

A lot of people say the loss of religious and civic institutions has contributed to isolation and loneliness.

My village and the adjacent village used to be a "factory town" with a GM plant, a battery plant, and several other small to medium size industrial employers. All of those industries are gone now. Walking down the main streets of the two villages, they are lined with various meeting halls - a UAW (United Auto Workers) union hall, and social clubs for Polish Americans, French Americans, Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Portuguese Americans, a VFW, American Legion, and a YMCA, and probably some others.

I imagine it was something like the factory town portrayed in the Deer Hunter.

The YMCA is the only institution that is still thriving as a community hub. Most have been shut down and abandoned, maybe rented out to private events now and then.

There are also at least 12 churches in the two neighboring villages. Other than the African American Baptist Church, the Catholic Churches (one for the immigrant Latino community, and one for the 2nd and 3rd generation Catholics) and a progressive Methodist church, most of the churches are quiet on Sundays.

And, from what I heard, there were once 130 bars in the two villages, which is mind boggling because the two villages now have maybe a dozen, and they're pretty dead most of the time.

In previous generations, those institutions I imagine were important centers for the community. I remember when I was growing up, my friend's dad was a member at some veteran's club, a VFW or American Legion, and we stopped in a few times on Friday nights hoping we might sneak a beer, and the place would be lively, with a lot of middle aged and older men sipping beers, telling jokes and backslapping. That place is closed, now, I think.

In my experience, I've been part of a Sangha, and a local at neighborhood bars over the years. I'm also tight with the crew of guys I grew up with from my neighborhood. The communities in those places are pretty deep - if there was a wedding or funeral (for people who are locals at bars, its mostly funerals) we were all there.

I have relatives who are cops and firemen and they seem to have deep communities. Weddings and funerals and barbecues etc. they all get together.

Does the online mode of interaction give rise to the same sense of community? I don't know if tweeting with each other is the same as guffawing with each other over beers, or going through spiritual experiences with dharma friends.

It seems straight forward that the cure for loneliness is to be community, a kind that is there through thick and thin.

On a related note, maybe the lack of civility in society is a function of the loss of civil community...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 01, 2018 6:23 pm

DharmaN00b wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 6:07 pm
“Sometimes to love someone you gotta be a stranger.”



“…blood-black nothingness began to spin / A system of cells interlinked within / Cells interlinked within cells interlinked / Within one stem. And dreadfully distinct / Against the dark, a tall white mountain played.”

GodDAMN, I've got to see that movie.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche


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dzogchungpa
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 01, 2018 6:36 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:56 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:46 pm
Shouldn't that be "god bless the child that's got his or her own"? Image
Are you excluding non-binary identifying individuals deliberately or unconsciously?

Unconsciously, I guess. :emb:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 8:54 pm

From the Atlantic article:
She told me she’d spent most of the summer hanging out alone in her room with her phone. That’s just the way her generation is, she said. “We didn’t have a choice to know any life without iPads or iPhones. I think we like our phones more than we like actual people.”
That made me want to literally vomit. I immediately felt vertigo and constriction in my esophogus.

JEEZ! WTF is going on with you kids?!!!!!

SNEAK OUT! SNEAK BEERS! GO FLIRT! GO HUG AND KISS AND (try to) HAVE SEX! GO BE STUPID! LAUGH!

Holy shit I'm afraid for my son and daughter...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 01, 2018 8:58 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:54 pm
From the Atlantic article:
She told me she’d spent most of the summer hanging out alone in her room with her phone. That’s just the way her generation is, she said. “We didn’t have a choice to know any life without iPads or iPhones. I think we like our phones more than we like actual people.”
That made me want to literally vomit. I immediately felt vertigo and constriction in my esophogus.

JEEZ! WTF is going on with you kids?!!!!!

SNEAK OUT! SNEAK BEERS! GO FLIRT! GO HUG AND KISS AND (try to) HAVE SEX! GO BE STUPID! LAUGH!

Holy shit I'm afraid for my son and daughter...

That's what you're worried about? Dude, we're all going to be under water soon anyway, so chill.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Virgo
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Virgo » Tue May 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:54 pm

SNEAK OUT! SNEAK BEERS! GO FLIRT! GO HUG AND KISS AND (try to) HAVE SEX! GO BE STUPID! LAUGH!
Oh they will, but they will find somebody on tinder, not in a club or a bar, etc. They can also ask boys or girls they like from school to snapchap, and then send each other naked pics before they hook up to show each other they like each other.

:smile:

Kevin...

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by The Cicada » Tue May 01, 2018 9:04 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:59 pm
They can also ask boys or girls they like from school to snapchap, and then send each other naked pics before they hook up to show each other they like each other.
So are we all purposely excluding non-binary identifying individuals? Is this really so unconscious?

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Queequeg
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 9:17 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:58 pm
That's what you're worried about? Dude, we're all going to be under water soon anyway, so chill.
That's what the ark is for.

Its going to be a 90s Lake Havasu party... if the kids will just put the damn phones down.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Virgo
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by Virgo » Tue May 01, 2018 9:19 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:04 pm

So are we all purposely excluding non-binary identifying individuals? Is this really so unconscious?
Jesus Christ Cicada, people alright? people...

Kevin...

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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by madhusudan » Tue May 01, 2018 9:36 pm

I can see how the predominance of technology and the safety culture are major factors in this disconnection from community among younger people.

From my perspective, all things being interrelated, nihilism/scientific materialism and the loss of meaning contribute to loneliness as well. From that ground, it's sort of like, "What's the point?" All things lose value, including relationships.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 01, 2018 11:01 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:19 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:04 pm
So are we all purposely excluding non-binary identifying individuals? Is this really so unconscious?
Jesus Christ Cicada, people alright? people...

Kevin...

Now, now, Kevin, no need to swear. I think we should all be appreciative of The Cicada's attempts to call attention to this important issue.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

DharmaN00b
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Re: Young people are loneliest?

Post by DharmaN00b » Tue May 01, 2018 11:17 pm

:crazy: How can you ascribe agency to the automatic mind? :crazy: (just teasing)

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