Guess who said this?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).

Guess who said this?

A. Eckhart Tolle
2
17%
B. Deepak Chopra
1
8%
C. Pema Chödrön
1
8%
D. Situ Rinpoche
6
50%
E. HH Dalai Lama
2
17%
F. None of the above
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 12

smcj
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Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Wed May 23, 2018 5:30 am

This is supposed to be a poll, but I can't figure out how to format it that way. If a mod would make it a real poll that would be nice.

Here are the quotes:
I don't mind saying "god", this is not a problem for me. One is spelt G-O-D. The other is spelt B-U-D-D-H-A. There is no difference to me; it is just a different language with a different terminology. Buddha's blessings are these for all sentient beings at all times.
also
For me, the way we receive the Buddha's blessings is the same way that Christians receive "God's grace," and everybody has their own reasons for requesting it.
Here are the candidates:
A. Eckhart Tolle
B. Deepak Chopra
C. Pema Chödrön
D. Situ Rinpoche
E. HH Dalai Lama
F. None of the above

In a couple of days I will post the quotes in their original contexts.
Last edited by smcj on Wed May 23, 2018 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

krodha
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by krodha » Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am

Ah yes, another www. jesuswheel .net moment.

smcj
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Wed May 23, 2018 5:51 am

krodha wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am
Ah yes, another www. jesuswheel .net moment.
So your guess as to who said it is...who?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

Norwegian
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Norwegian » Wed May 23, 2018 6:36 am

smcj wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:51 am
krodha wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am
Ah yes, another www. jesuswheel .net moment.
So your guess as to who said it is...who?
D. Tai Situ, as that's what a simple Google search reveals.

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Ayu
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Ayu » Wed May 23, 2018 7:49 am

I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

smcj
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Wed May 23, 2018 12:55 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:36 am
D. Tai Situ, as that's what a simple Google search reveals.
spoilsport. :cry:
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Aryjna
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Aryjna » Wed May 23, 2018 1:05 pm

Why does it matter who said it? Especially when it is taken out of context and is essentially slander in that it misrepresents the view in the above article?

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed May 23, 2018 2:25 pm

Perhaps one of the Brahma-viharas led to the original post.

Maybe eventually one of the mods will delete it because after all cleanliness is next to godliness.

emaho
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by emaho » Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am

I would have guessed Eckardt Tolle, because I find the idea of equating Buddha and God completely misguided....
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu May 24, 2018 12:41 pm

emaho wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am
I would have guessed Eckardt Tolle, because I find the idea of equating Buddha and God completely misguided....
Me too.

:coffee:
Kim

smcj
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Thu May 24, 2018 4:36 pm

emaho wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am
I would have guessed Eckardt Tolle, because I find the idea of equating Buddha and God completely misguided....
The link above is actually from Situ R.'s "Creation and Completion". In another section he talks about leaning towards being an eternalist--of sorts.
There is nothing that is not primordially connected. Everything is primordially united beyond the concepts of far and near. Things can be billions of miles away but they are still united. This is, let us say, a simplistic way to describe the internal and external view of the Mahamudra. Eternalists and nihilists, who are habitually at each other’s throats, often misunderstand this view. Not understanding, the eternalists look at the Mahamudra view and call it nihilism. Not understanding, the nihilists look at the Mahamudra view and call it eternalism. The Mahamudra view does not say we want to realize nothingness, that Buddhahood is the realization of nothingness. We understand emptiness as being beyond everything. Actually, it is quite the opposite of nothingness. It is everything-ness. Nor is the primordial essence permanent or impermanent. If someone held me up at gunpoint and ordered me to say whether it was impermanent or permanent. I would rather say it was permanent, but this is not necessarily correct. I would only say this under duress. What I would comfortably say is that understanding Mahamudra philosophy means understanding the unity of the universal, transcendent and relative truths.
Anyways, I suspect that if Situ R. was to anonymously post here he would be shot down as not knowing what he was talking about.

Just sayin'
Last edited by smcj on Thu May 24, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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conebeckham
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by conebeckham » Thu May 24, 2018 4:37 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 1:05 pm
Why does it matter who said it? Especially when it is taken out of context and is essentially slander in that it misrepresents the view in the above article?
I don't know if it's slander....but I think the quotes, taken out of context, lead to assumptions that are not borne out by What Rinpoche is saying.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

smcj
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Thu May 24, 2018 5:53 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:37 pm
I don't know if it's slander....but I think the quotes, taken out of context, lead to assumptions that are not borne out by What Rinpoche is saying.
Which is why it is incumbent upon people to read the context in the above link. Forget about his perspectives on Christianity. Just ignore that. It's not his field of expertise. However what he says about Buddhism is a rare exposition on Kagyu orthodoxy.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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conebeckham
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by conebeckham » Thu May 24, 2018 7:47 pm

What is your understanding of what he is saying with respect to "Kagyu orthodoxy?" I'm genuinely curious. For that matter, what is "Kagyu orthodoxy" anyway? I am not sure I know....

Perhaps this is matter for another thread, though.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Jesse
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Jesse » Thu May 24, 2018 8:05 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:41 pm
emaho wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am
I would have guessed Eckardt Tolle, because I find the idea of equating Buddha and God completely misguided....
Me too.

:coffee:
Kim
Which god? :popcorn:
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

boda
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by boda » Thu May 24, 2018 8:06 pm

I thought it was Deepak Chopra. He'll say anything to sell a book. Not that his books are without value.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu May 24, 2018 8:48 pm

krodha wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am
Ah yes, another www. jesuswheel .net moment.
:rolling:

emaho
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by emaho » Fri May 25, 2018 6:12 am

smcj wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:36 pm
Anyways, I suspect that if Situ R. was to anonymously post here he would be shot down as not knowing what he was talking about.

Just sayin'
Doesn't need much fantasy to imagine that :smile:

What I meant to say is just that I don't really see what sense it makes to equate Buddha and God. If he had said Buddhanature or primordial essence I wouldn't disagree, but Buddha?
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

smcj
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by smcj » Fri May 25, 2018 6:33 am

emaho wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:12 am
smcj wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:36 pm
Anyways, I suspect that if Situ R. was to anonymously post here he would be shot down as not knowing what he was talking about.

Just sayin'
Doesn't need much fantasy to imagine that :smile:

What I meant to say is just that I don't really see what sense it makes to equate Buddha and God. If he had said Buddhanature or primordial essence I wouldn't disagree, but Buddha?
“Buddha” is the primordial essence appearing as a human without any obscurations. That is the Nirmanakaya, or more accurately all the kayas combined, which is the Swabhavakakaya. After Paranirvana the Nirmanakaya ends, leaving the Dharmakaya (and Sambogakaya?). I think it ok to still say “Buddha” at that point.

This is different than “God” in that there are no thought processes of any kind, no evaluations or judgments, no omnipotent actions. . Buddha Activity is automatic (usually translated as spontaneous) and appropriate to the karma of beings. Presumably that includes the karma created by prayer, thus Situ R’s reference to blessings.

At least that’s how I understand it is put in the last chapter of the Uttaratantra, which is what I think Situ R is basing these ideas on.
Last edited by smcj on Fri May 25, 2018 7:26 am, edited 9 times in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

emaho
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Re: Guess who said this?

Post by emaho » Fri May 25, 2018 6:42 am

smcj wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:33 am
“Buddha” is the primordial essence appearing as a human without any obscurations.
Funny you say that, because for me that is exactly the reason why he could not be equated with God, I think the analog to God is rather the primordial essence :smile:
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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