Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

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boda
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Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:22 pm



Have you tried holotropic breath work? If so, what was your experience?

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Jesse » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:36 pm

Just a warning, this has isochronic tones in the background. They can change your state of consciousness without you knowing, they can also induce seizures in some people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochronic_tones

However, I've never tried 'holotropic breathwork', but chanting it'self can induce strong changes in your body, and consciousness. Especially chanting OM, the vibration generated in your chest should very obviously relax your body(almost instantly.), but especially when done correctly, and for a long period of time.

In particular, if you find the correct 'tone', when you do it's very obvious.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:00 pm

I tried it this morning at the end of my sit when my mind was quiet, but only for about 10 minutes. From what I understand you're supposed to do it (deep, continuous, and slightly sped up belly breathing) for at least 20-30 min or much longer. It could be because my mind was already quiet that it didn't seem to have much of an effect, or because I didn't do it long enough. Felt a bit 'high' for about 15 minutes after.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:48 am

boda wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:00 pm
Felt a bit 'high' for about 15 minutes after.
It is called hyper-oxygenation and it is a complete waste of time. Actually, it can be physically damaging.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:42 pm

I think there are breathing techniques is some Buddhist traditions that are based in the same principle.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:40 pm

boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:42 pm
I think there are breathing techniques is some Buddhist traditions that are based in the same principle.
There are, they exist in various forms of yoga...however, removing them from their context in those systems is pointless, when you learn them in those you are not just trying it to try it.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:46 pm

I don’t know what you mean by “trying it to try it.”

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:47 pm

boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:46 pm
I don’t know what you mean by “trying it to try it.”
Trying it as just a technique, removed from any larger teaching or purpose.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:07 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:47 pm
boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:46 pm
I don’t know what you mean by “trying it to try it.”
Trying it as just a technique, removed from any larger teaching or purpose.
Your meager talent for mind reading aside, you statement is self contradictory. A technique implies a purpose.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:45 pm

boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:07 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:47 pm
boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:46 pm
I don’t know what you mean by “trying it to try it.”
Trying it as just a technique, removed from any larger teaching or purpose.
Your meager talent for mind reading aside, you statement is self contradictory. A technique implies a purpose.
I wasn't trying to mind read at all, but it's telling that you think I was.

Technique definitely does not imply purpose, particular in terms of spiritual and physiological techniques, the current marketplace is full of experimentation based on little bits taken out of context, etc.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:26 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:45 pm
boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:07 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:47 pm


Trying it as just a technique, removed from any larger teaching or purpose.
Your meager talent for mind reading aside, your statement is self contradictory. A technique implies a purpose.
I wasn't trying to mind read at all, but it's telling that you think I was.
What? It’s just an expression.
Technique definitely does not imply purpose, particular in terms of spiritual and physiological techniques, the current marketplace is full of experimentation based on little bits taken out of context, etc.
A technique means a skillful or efficient way of doing something.

Whenever you’re unsure of something you might at least make the minimal effort of googling it, to discover the purpose or whatever. You can simply ignor it too. :)

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:38 pm

boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:26 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:45 pm
boda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:07 pm


Your meager talent for mind reading aside, your statement is self contradictory. A technique implies a purpose.
I wasn't trying to mind read at all, but it's telling that you think I was.
What? It’s just an expression.
Technique definitely does not imply purpose, particular in terms of spiritual and physiological techniques, the current marketplace is full of experimentation based on little bits taken out of context, etc.
A technique means a skillful or efficient way of doing something.

Whenever you’re unsure of something you might at least make the minimal effort of googling it, to discover the purpose or whatever. You can simply ignor it too. :)

I already know what the technique is, again, it's found in a wide variety of Yogic practices etc. Again, it means very little when you remove it from the context(s) it's intended in. There is a whole "wellness" etc. industry that does just this, claiming to have 'discovered' novel approaches that have been around for thousands of years. I don't think it's entirely without merit to present these kinds of techniques ad hoc when needed, but the idea that you can just "do" them by themselves and reap any meaningful long term benefit is doubtful, in my opinion.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 am

Does a meditation technique mean very little when removed from a religious context? If so, doesn’t that mean it’s merely a ritual.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:53 am

boda wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 am
Does a meditation technique mean very little when removed from a religious context? If so, doesn’t that mean it’s merely a ritual.
Of course it does. I was taught the technique within the context of psychotherapeutic training. The trainer wanted to do nothing more than induce an experience. Any experience. It was a complete waste of time.

If the technique is taught within the context of a ritual or practice then it has a specific aim and thus (theoretically) will have a specific outcome: to understand something, to feel something, to see something, to represent something, etc...

Sensory isolation (for example) has a different effect (and aim) when used for torture and a different effect when applied in dark retreat.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:09 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:53 am
boda wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 am
Does a meditation technique mean very little when removed from a religious context? If so, doesn’t that mean it’s merely a ritual.
Of course it does. I was taught the technique within the context of psychotherapeutic training. The trainer wanted to do nothing more than induce an experience. Any experience. It was a complete waste of time.
It's not clear if you mean a meditation technique or holotropic breathwork, if that matters.

If all the trainer was trying to do was induce any experience then it must have been a success, I imagine.
If the technique is taught within the context of a ritual or practice then it has a specific aim and thus (theoretically) will have a specific outcome: to understand something, to feel something, to see something, to represent something, etc...
Holotropic breathwork is taught within a framework and is not recommended to practice without one, or rather, without guidance. Same is true for Buddhist meditation practices, I understand.
Sensory isolation (for example) has a different effect (and aim) when used for torture and a different effect when applied in dark retreat.
Funny you should mention that, I spent almost 2 hours in a sensory deprivation tank last Thursday.

The whole point of sensory deprivation, holotropic breathwork, or whatever, is to sort of hack the body/mind. The reasons for hacking it could of course vary widely.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:16 pm

boda wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 am
Does a meditation technique mean very little when removed from a religious context? If so, doesn’t that mean it’s merely a ritual.
We'd have to get into what a "religious context" is to answer that question, that's a broad category. There are certainly some teachers who teach in a way that goes against some of what would be considered "religious", but they teach an inseparable and integrated view of ethics, meditation, and behavior. Whether or not you want to call this religious, it is definitely far more worth people's time than isolated techniques meant to induce this or that experience, with no clear motivation as to why you'd want to have that experience in the first place...with the exception of a vague claim of "wellness" etc.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:16 pm
boda wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 am
Does a meditation technique mean very little when removed from a religious context? If so, doesn’t that mean it’s merely a ritual.
We'd have to get into what a "religious context" is to answer that question, that's a broad category.
You’re the one who brought it up so, whatever you mean by it.
There are certainly some teachers who teach in a way that goes against some of what would be considered "religious", but they teach an inseparable and integrated view of ethics, meditation, and behavior.
The inability to separate ethics, meditation, and behavior is characteristic of religious belief and, in my opinion, the worst aspect of it, because it gives control to an authority figure, and teachers are human. Power tends to corrupt humans. Not always the case but we know many cases where this has occurred.
Whether or not you want to call this religious, it is definitely far more worth people's time than isolated techniques meant to induce this or that experience, with no clear motivation as to why you'd want to have that experience in the first place...
To be somewhat uncomfortably candid with you, the reason I’m currently interested in holotropic breathwork and other ‘hacks’ is rather specific: to deactivate the neural default mode network. This is the neural network associated with the sense of self. As a Buddhist, I assume it makes intuitive sense to you why I would pursue this goal, even if you regard the method foolish or useless.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:58 am

boda wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am

You’re the one who brought it up so, whatever you mean by it.
I don't think I said anything about "religious context", I said teaching the techniques removed from any context or larger view. "Religious" is your label here, you can own it. It is a loaded label in Western culture, and II try not to use it, or think with it, if I can avoid it.
The inability to separate ethics, meditation, and behavior is characteristic of religious belief and, in my opinion, the worst aspect of it, because it gives control to an authority figure, and teachers are human. Power tends to corrupt humans. Not always the case but we know many cases where this has occurred.

So you think that behavior, meditation, and ethics should be separate and not conform to one another? Do tell.
To be somewhat uncomfortably candid with you, the reason I’m currently interested in holotropic breathwork and other ‘hacks’ is rather specific: to deactivate the neural default mode network. This is the neural network associated with the sense of self. As a Buddhist, I assume it makes intuitive sense to you why I would pursue this goal, even if you regard the method foolish or useless.
Why would you look to non-Buddhist teaching piecemeal techniques then? If you are looking for techniques that help one look past the illusion of a self - including breathing techniques, they are already taught in a more complete form than this particular iteration of 'holotropic' breath work. You're alrasdy admitting in your OP that the practice had no effect, and I am suggesting that that might be because for such a practice to have the desired effect, it needs to be part of a larger whole.
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:36 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:58 am
boda wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am

You’re the one who brought it up so, whatever you mean by it.
I don't think I said anything about "religious context", I said teaching the techniques removed from any context or larger view. "Religious" is your label here, you can own it. It is a loaded label in Western culture, and II try not to use it, or think with it, if I can avoid it.
My mistake... and I own it.
So you think that behavior, meditation, and ethics should be separate and not conform to one another? Do tell.
Rather I don’t think they should be inseparable, for the specific reason that I mentioned and other reasons. I just double-checked to verify that you used the word inseparable.
You’re already admitting in your OP that the practice had no effect, and I am suggesting that that might be because for such a practice to have the desired effect, it needs to be part of a larger whole.
It’s meant to be done with more structure and guidance, as I’ve mentioned. I think that I also mentioned that my try at it was marginal.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:13 am

boda wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am
To be somewhat uncomfortably candid with you, the reason I’m currently interested in holotropic breathwork and other ‘hacks’ is rather specific: to deactivate the neural default mode network. This is the neural network associated with the sense of self. As a Buddhist, I assume it makes intuitive sense to you why I would pursue this goal, even if you regard the method foolish or useless.
Ummmm... no actually. It is one thing to realise the conditioned nature of our existence and how the relative self is a conglomeration of parts and another thing to induce dissociative psychosis.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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