Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:12 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:15 pm
Lots of subjects like this don't have studies or organized collections of hard data available. If you are lucky enough to research a subject that does have studies, meta studies, and hard data, then you are well set. If that stuff does not exist, you are forced to draw conclusions using what evidence you do have, and inference. So in these cases "supporting a claim" does not have to do with presenting organized empirical evidence, because often it has never been compiled.
If I recall correctly, our conflict started with my saying "you can't know...", or something like that, meaning that if no research has been done you can't make a, I'll say reasonable, conclusion. We may be just going along with whatever the prevailing narrative is, in this case.
Yes, I've done techniques similar to this, in terms of meditation, they are useful to create certain states and experiences, but are not particularly useful on their own, outside some sort of meditation program that includes for a specific purpose.
I understand if you don't want to go into details, but I'm curious about what the specific purpose was of these similar techniques that you used. What was the purpose of creating those specific states and experiences?
Breath is intimately connected to the mindstream, as is posture - basic meditation posture is not just to be comfortable-, using them to create a certain experience as a jumping off point is found in a number of traditions. If you want stuff that's unrestricted you check out what little exists of Buddhist qigong to get an idea. Yang Wing Ming has written some very accessible books on the subject.
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boda
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:20 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:02 pm
Do you have a problem with something being easy?
Well, for instance, in the book when talking about Leary and the like, Pollan describes how in some people ego dissolution can rapidly lead to ego expansion. So a sustained effort may be necessary to integrate such an experience.

I can't see ever not needing to meditate on a regular basis.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:28 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:12 pm
boda wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:15 pm
Lots of subjects like this don't have studies or organized collections of hard data available. If you are lucky enough to research a subject that does have studies, meta studies, and hard data, then you are well set. If that stuff does not exist, you are forced to draw conclusions using what evidence you do have, and inference. So in these cases "supporting a claim" does not have to do with presenting organized empirical evidence, because often it has never been compiled.
If I recall correctly, our conflict started with my saying "you can't know...", or something like that, meaning that if no research has been done you can't make a, I'll say reasonable, conclusion. We may be just going along with whatever the prevailing narrative is, in this case.
Yes, I've done techniques similar to this, in terms of meditation, they are useful to create certain states and experiences, but are not particularly useful on their own, outside some sort of meditation program that includes for a specific purpose.
I understand if you don't want to go into details, but I'm curious about what the specific purpose was of these similar techniques that you used. What was the purpose of creating those specific states and experiences?
Breath is intimately connected to the mindstream, as is posture - basic meditation posture is not just to be comfortable-, using them to create a certain experience as a jumping off point is found in a number of traditions.
I don't think he mentions anything about 'mindstream' but Meido just put out a great book that touches on this called The Rinzai Zen Way https://www.amazon.com/Rinzai-Zen-Way-G ... B076P2GWXN

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:03 am

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:28 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:12 pm
boda wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 pm


If I recall correctly, our conflict started with my saying "you can't know...", or something like that, meaning that if no research has been done you can't make a, I'll say reasonable, conclusion. We may be just going along with whatever the prevailing narrative is, in this case.



I understand if you don't want to go into details, but I'm curious about what the specific purpose was of these similar techniques that you used. What was the purpose of creating those specific states and experiences?
Breath is intimately connected to the mindstream, as is posture - basic meditation posture is not just to be comfortable-, using them to create a certain experience as a jumping off point is found in a number of traditions.
I don't think he mentions anything about 'mindstream' but Meido just put out a great book that touches on this called The Rinzai Zen Way https://www.amazon.com/Rinzai-Zen-Way-G ... B076P2GWXN
Probably well worth reading, Meido is awesome. Anyway, lots of teachings will implicitly or explicitly explain this, it's not complicated, just knowing that the flow and direction thoughts and emotions both affect, and are affected by one's breath. You can verify it with your own experience too.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:11 am

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:20 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:02 pm
Do you have a problem with something being easy?
Well, for instance, in the book when talking about Leary and the like, Pollan describes how in some people ego dissolution can rapidly lead to ego expansion. So a sustained effort may be necessary to integrate such an experience.

I can't see ever not needing to meditate on a regular basis.

OK, so it's not the easiness that makes you uneasy.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Lindama
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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Lindama » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Holotropic breathwork is generally associated with Stan Grof. There are other forms, incl the original Primal Therapy, Arthur Janov. I worked with an Australian psychiatrist focused on pre-parinatal work/original conditioning. He trained with Janov. (both dead) Yes, it will induce an experience. I found it useful in a safe setting. It brought up trauma for me, I found my feelings. It was useful for a time. Looking back, I also see that it brought up re-injury, perhaps similar to any detox reaction. Personally, I would not do it again (served it's purpose) and would not recommend doing it alone. IMO, a skilled therapist who can handle this is rare, very rare.

linda
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by boda » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:57 pm

Thanks for sharing, Lindama.

Yeah I tried it for only about 10 minutes, just kinda testing the water. From what I understand it is definitely not something you want to do by yourself, going full throttle.

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Re: Have you tried Holotropic Breathwork?

Post by Lindama » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:02 am

ps.... I nearly forgot to mention that I also experienced an expanded consciousness, before I was conceived. let that sink in. It was beginners luck, and I went on to explore the trauma. Can't make these things happen. The work I was doing was called cellular consciousness. nowadays, it is not here, not gone.

linda
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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