TRUCK FUMP

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Virgo » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:45 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:08 am
Image
He's got a lot of respect for Kim:



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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm
The Saudis are guilty of all kinds of atrocities. The fact that the US broadly supports them, doesn't make the US the perpetrator. So yes, as stated, it is fake, even more than when the Russians were accused of shooting down MH17. At least in that instance, the pro-Russian separatists had much less independence and autonomy than the Saudi. But both accusations are false.
If believing that makes you feel better, who am I to deny you your moment of happiness?
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Mantrik » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:45 am
The US backed Saudi forces DID bomb the Doctors Without Borders cholera treatment facility in Yemen.

There is nothing fake about that piece of news.
Except the spin. All media spin, of course, as we know. The problem with memes of Fartbook is that people receive them from 'Friends' etc. and credibility becomes attached to them. This is how the Russian Trolls work. Now, in this case you have a special perspective, maybe insight, but can you put a US finger on the button, or just on the arms sales invoice?
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:38 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:28 pm
Now, in this case you have a special perspective, maybe insight, but can you put a US finger on the button, or just on the arms sales invoice?
It's the same thing for me. Remember how selling weapons is wrong livelihood? That clause didn't get in there by chance.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Mantrik » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:38 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:28 pm
Now, in this case you have a special perspective, maybe insight, but can you put a US finger on the button, or just on the arms sales invoice?
It's the same thing for me. Remember how selling weapons is wrong livelihood? That clause didn't get in there by chance.
In that context, clearly seelling the means of killing is wrong, but making a direct connection to a specific incident is pushing it a bit. I guess it is similar to the gun sales to those who carry out massacres in the US. Bad karma for sure, and I would like to think they share in the vipaka from the killings, but I'm not sure it is that simple.

In a mundane wordly sense, I think the meme is just spin, and tries to make an oblique link into a direct causal one.
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 pm
In that context, clearly seelling the means of killing is wrong, but making a direct connection to a specific incident is pushing it a bit. I guess it is similar to the gun sales to those who carry out massacres in the US. Bad karma for sure, and I would like to think they share in the vipaka from the killings, but I'm not sure it is that simple.
The may not share the vipaka of killing but they will reap the vipaka of selling weapons. That's bad enough.

The connection though is VERY clear: the Saudis use weapons sold by the US and have political backing from the U$ to commit atrocities in Yemen.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:17 pm

Sloppy reasoning, Greg. In a messy world, sometimes we have to take sides when neither one are the good ones..

I know I am being the Devil's advocate but you know what, truth is not negotiable in my book. We can't afford to play roughshod with it, because too many already do. The end does not justify the means.

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:24 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 pm
In that context, clearly seelling the means of killing is wrong, but making a direct connection to a specific incident is pushing it a bit. I guess it is similar to the gun sales to those who carry out massacres in the US. Bad karma for sure, and I would like to think they share in the vipaka from the killings, but I'm not sure it is that simple.
The may not share the vipaka of killing but they will reap the vipaka of selling weapons. That's bad enough.

The connection though is VERY clear: the Saudis use weapons sold by the US and have political backing from the U$ to commit atrocities in Yemen.
The US funds, and is complicit in all kinds of awful stuff all the time, hopefully that's news to no one.

One thing I find really amusing about the current state of affairs is that it is sometimes a faction of the present "liberal" left who are all the sudden engaged in blanket defense of indefensible American behavior, promoting a new Red Scare, etc. The whole situation is kind of mind blowing across the board.
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm

It's not just the liberals. It's pretty much the entire intelligence community. But of course they are just a bunch of lying arseholes.

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:42 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm
It's not just the liberals. It's pretty much the entire intelligence community. But of course they are just a bunch of lying arseholes.
If someone could produce actual proof of Russian malfeasance, instead of nothing but sensational hot air, it would be a lot more convincing. But yes, the US intelligence community is in fact known for lying through it's teeth on a regular basis and doing lots of shady things, so I agree, even if this was intended sarcastically.

Really a kick in the pants to watch some of my self-described "leftist" friends jumping fully into the the narratives of the FBI, CIA etc.
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:46 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:17 pm
Sloppy reasoning, Greg. In a messy world, sometimes we have to take sides when neither one are the good ones..

I know I am being the Devil's advocate but you know what, truth is not negotiable in my book. We can't afford to play roughshod with it, because too many already do. The end does not justify the means.
You don't have to choose sides, when both sides suck. You can actually reject both sides. You can promote an alternative. There are millions of options, although the game is to try to trap you into thinking there are only two identical sides to choose from.

So, for me the choice is not between Russia and America because I reject both those options. I also don't think the choice is between conservatives and liberals. I also reject both those options.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:47 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:42 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm
It's not just the liberals. It's pretty much the entire intelligence community. But of course they are just a bunch of lying arseholes.
If someone could produce actual proof of Russian malfeasance, instead of nothing but sensational hot air, it would be a lot more convincing. But yes, the US intelligence community is in fact known for lying through it's teeth on a regular basis and doing lots of shady things, so I agree, even if this was intended sarcastically.

Really a kick in the pants to watch some of my self-described "leftist" friends jumping fully into the the narratives of the FBI, CIA etc.
There's actually a great deal of circumstantial evidence. And it boggles the mind how anyone can deny that it is at least extremely likely.

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:48 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:46 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:17 pm
Sloppy reasoning, Greg. In a messy world, sometimes we have to take sides when neither one are the good ones..

I know I am being the Devil's advocate but you know what, truth is not negotiable in my book. We can't afford to play roughshod with it, because too many already do. The end does not justify the means.
You don't have to choose sides, when both sides suck. You can actually reject both sides. You can promote an alternative. There are millions of options, although the game is to try to trap you into thinking there are only two identical sides to choose from.

So, for me the choice is not between Russia and America because I reject both those options. I also don't think the choice is between conservatives and liberals. I also reject both those options.
Fair enough and this is the choice you and I can make because we can afford to. Those in power are less fortunate.

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:53 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:47 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:42 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm
It's not just the liberals. It's pretty much the entire intelligence community. But of course they are just a bunch of lying arseholes.
If someone could produce actual proof of Russian malfeasance, instead of nothing but sensational hot air, it would be a lot more convincing. But yes, the US intelligence community is in fact known for lying through it's teeth on a regular basis and doing lots of shady things, so I agree, even if this was intended sarcastically.

Really a kick in the pants to watch some of my self-described "leftist" friends jumping fully into the the narratives of the FBI, CIA etc.
There's actually a great deal of circumstantial evidence. And it boggles the mind how anyone can deny that it is at least extremely likely.
What's extremely likely, that Russia is involved in the same stuff that both our country, and countries around the world do all the time? Or that for some reason we are supposed to care more about Russia than all the other countries doing awful things, the pressing problems in our own country, our own history with propping up and supporting regimes more repugnant that Putin's... the crisis facing Western democracies, Neoliberalism, etc.?

The fact that some US politicians are in cahoots with sleaze bags wouldn't exactly be big news, but somehow now it's taking up a lot of space. Not news now in my opinion, never was. I have no idea why you guys want to waste time worrying about Drumpf and these circumstantial, internecine conspiracies when there are real problems all over the place, some of which are related to you know, his actual policy changes... but it's your hand-wringing prerogative, as it is mine to think you are probably wasting your time.
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:00 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:46 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:17 pm
Sloppy reasoning, Greg. In a messy world, sometimes we have to take sides when neither one are the good ones..

I know I am being the Devil's advocate but you know what, truth is not negotiable in my book. We can't afford to play roughshod with it, because too many already do. The end does not justify the means.
You don't have to choose sides, when both sides suck. You can actually reject both sides. You can promote an alternative. There are millions of options, although the game is to try to trap you into thinking there are only two identical sides to choose from.

So, for me the choice is not between Russia and America because I reject both those options. I also don't think the choice is between conservatives and liberals. I also reject both those options.

Agreed 100%

I "side" with average people here who are suffering the fallout of years of hollowing out our civic culture due to neoliberalism and privatization, and years and years of supposed "liberals" who sold our country piecemeal off to multinationals, as well as those in danger of the current reactionary moment via Trump and his minions. However, I'm not going to "pick sides" if it's between Trump and his gang, or CNN and the CIA...sorry, but neither is a side worth choosing, even if I find myself incidentally more aligned with one than the other.
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Rick » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:15 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:53 pm
his actual policy changes
Recently Noam Chomsky said that iho the Republicans/Trump is the most dangerous organization of all earthly history* in that its attitudes/policies promote two things that could lay waste to large chunks of the planet: environment-trashing and nuclear war. I get a strong whiff of "Après moi, le déluge!" from Trumpublicana. Take while the takin's good, long-term consequences be damned! It's the 'merican way, in'nt?

* Up until now ... just give us time.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Minobu » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:53 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:53 pm

The fact that some US politicians are in cahoots with sleaze bags wouldn't exactly be big news, but somehow now it's taking up a lot of space. Not news now in my opinion, never was. I have no idea why you guys want to waste time worrying about Drumpf and these circumstantial, internecine conspiracies when there are real problems all over the place, some of which are related to you know, his actual policy changes... but it's your hand-wringing prerogative, as it is mine to think you are probably wasting your time.
This is the first time that the likes of russia actually could derail internal american politics on a scale that rivals what politicians can do with political party funding .

First up both parties lose control over what ever propaganda is being peddled...


We all see trump defending russia over and over ignoring the Crimea thing and Ukrainian revolts funded by russia.

thats big...really big....and yet russia , helped him win via online smarts.

Peeing on women in Russian hotel rooms might be
circumstantial, internecine conspiracies

but rigging the election via facebook from russia is factual.

secound up ;
We want our propaganda to be homegrown....

parties spend millions on the best spin doctors...most of what people vote for is based on spin...reality is left aside for the malcolms of this world.

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:59 am

Minobu wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:53 pm


This is the first time that the likes of russia actually could derail internal american politics on a scale that rivals what politicians can do with political party funding .
What do you think Russia derailed exactly? Firstly, HRC won the popular vote, second, the Democrats made a huge blunder in their calculations, and have been sliding downhill for years in this general direction, particularly after abandoning their previous lip service to the working class. If Russia actually put forth much effort into skewing the outcome of the election, then they might have wasted their time, as domestic actors appear to have done their job for them.

I don't deny that Russia was up to some shady stuff, what I will say is that it's dowright sad that people are more likely to blame Trump winning on Russia, rather than the obvious thing - that HRC was a terrible candidate that inspired no one and moreover part of a party that no longer represents it's constituency, at exactly the wrong time in history. The whole thing is indicative of our toxic politics and should be a call for..at least striving towards a new political conversation, not playing Red Scare in order to avoid the obvious.


thats big...really big....and yet russia , helped him win via online smarts.
How did they help him win? You mean the Facebook stuff? Nonsense, Trump didn't just win, HRC also lost...I had to hold my nose to vote for her and could barely manage.
but rigging the election via facebook from russia is factual.
Really? go ahead and show me the facts of Russia "rigging the election", rather than just being one factor among many.

As a disclaimer, I find Trump and his cronies depressing and horrifying as other in the thread, I just think most of the Russia stuff is generated by a another faction the political class who I am not interested in supporting
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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Minobu » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:33 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:59 am
Minobu wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:53 pm


This is the first time that the likes of russia actually could derail internal american politics on a scale that rivals what politicians can do with political party funding .
What do you think Russia derailed exactly? Firstly, HRC won the popular vote, second, the Democrats made a huge blunder in their calculations, and have been sliding downhill for years in this general direction, particularly after abandoning their previous lip service to the working class. If Russia actually put forth much effort into skewing the outcome of the election, then they might have wasted their time, as domestic actors appear to have done their job for them.

I don't deny that Russia was up to some shady stuff, what I will say is that it's dowright sad that people are more likely to blame Trump winning on Russia, rather than the obvious thing - that HRC was a terrible candidate that inspired no one and moreover part of a party that no longer represents it's constituency, at exactly the wrong time in history. The whole thing is indicative of our toxic politics and should be a call for..at least striving towards a new political conversation, not playing Red Scare in order to avoid the obvious.


thats big...really big....and yet russia , helped him win via online smarts.
How did they help him win? You mean the Facebook stuff? Nonsense, Trump didn't just win, HRC also lost...I had to hold my nose to vote for her and could barely manage.
but rigging the election via facebook from russia is factual.
Really? go ahead and show me the facts of Russia "rigging the election", rather than just being one factor among many.

As a disclaimer, I find Trump and his cronies depressing and horrifying as other in the thread, I just think most of the Russia stuff is generated by a another faction the political class who I am not interested in supporting
all elections are now won online with using the lowest common denominator propaganda hypnotizing the masses ....

Ontario just was won by doug ford due to online ads ...remember Rob ford crack head mayor of toronto...welll...his brother is now premier of ontario...

If you think russia's online fake news had no effect...well....thats your choice...the experiment was tried and proven...

Obama was the first to win through online campaigning... He did not resort to fakery....but hey the internet proves fakery is believable...So the genie is out of the bottle ...as for the masses ... "Let them eat Fake".

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Re: TRUCK FUMP

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:46 am

Minobu wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:33 am


If you think russia's online fake news had no effect...well....thats your choice...the experiment was tried and proven...
Really, where was it "proven"? And I didn't say it had no effect, I just think the effect is pretty marginal in comparison to things like HRC being a terrible candidate, the DNC leadership being careerist corporate sell outs and making exactly the wrong moves at the wrong times.

If you have some evidence that this stuff was somehow orchestrated by Russia, go ahead and present it. Otherwise, I have to conclude that those who claim Russia had some substantial role in the election are off the mark.
Obama was the first to win through online campaigning... He did not resort to fakery....but hey the internet proves fakery is believable...So the genie is out of the bottle ...as for the masses ... "Let them eat Fake".
Lots of mainstream news is "fake" too, it's just by omission usually. Just witness the reaction in this thread about the US supporting the Saudis bombing Yemen, something that is really easy to find out, but simply isn't much discussed in mainstream news.

Again, if you have some substantial evidence that made stories like Pizzagate etc. somehow swung the election, let me know. personally, as disgusting as I find that kind of thing, I don't think it was a major factor.
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