Big messages to deplorables ???

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Minobu
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Minobu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:32 am

Quay wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:41 am
She knew what was on her jacket. The question remains what message was she sending and who was the intended recipient.
she said she wanted to help the kids and that she was against this.....yes/no ? It was something along those lines she went to texas..her idea and will to go there to help????.??


Well if she wore it as a statement of what her people around her think and not her really.....Then she is a Traitor to the Trump agenda and wanted to show us what they think,,,,

i try to see good in people...and hope for the best....

In my eyes she would really be the First Lady ofThe United States of America and what some of us all hope America really stands for...

I mean people...this is America I am talking about...the land of liberty ,freedom , justice, awakening to the real value of human equality...The vestige of all that is supposed to be good at it's core values....

America as the revolution and it's forefathers created needs a First Lady who showed us the Truth.....

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dorje » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 pm

Minobu wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:32 am
I mean people...this is America I am talking about...the land of liberty ,freedom , justice, awakening to the real value of human equality...The vestige of all that is supposed to be good at it's core values....

America as the revolution and it's forefathers created needs a First Lady who showed us the Truth.....
You mean the forefathers that owned slaves and exterminated the First Nations? Spare me the histrionics.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Minobu
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Minobu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:34 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 pm
Minobu wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:32 am
I mean people...this is America I am talking about...the land of liberty ,freedom , justice, awakening to the real value of human equality...The vestige of all that is supposed to be good at it's core values....

America as the revolution and it's forefathers created needs a First Lady who showed us the Truth.....
You mean the forefathers that owned slaves and exterminated the First Nations? Spare me the histrionics.
Look those were the times they were born into...they set the stage for what we have today...they created a whole new paradigm for change in human rights and equality.

you want to focus on the times and call them down for it...fine thats your right and freedom to do so without going to jail or being hanged....wonder why you get to do that ? who enabled a system for you to do that...

It affected the whole world , what they did...for me is like from Above...inspired ...just as much as Mahayana teachings were inspired from Above...

So do you think they help inspire the French revolution?...I mean to focus on the dirt of the time and disregard the essence of law they created....
shame...

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 pm

The very title of this thread has persuaded me that Trump is certain to win reelection. And you people will be the ones to do it, not his "base". As long as everyone remembers which basket they live in, there will be no other candidate.

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:13 pm

sherabpa wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:55 pm
You take seriously the concerns of the Trump base that led them to vote for him in the first place, which are primarily economic. You stop calling them morons, stupid, deplorables, and racists, which alienates them further and keeps reconciliation at bay. If you use these insults around dharma centers, communities or forums you are driving many people away from the dharma where they could otherwise find some respite from their pain.
I'm afraid to say, this view is so 2016. Those days are over. It's not possible to go back to that kind of discourse.

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Dan74
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Dan74 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:13 pm
sherabpa wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:55 pm
You take seriously the concerns of the Trump base that led them to vote for him in the first place, which are primarily economic. You stop calling them morons, stupid, deplorables, and racists, which alienates them further and keeps reconciliation at bay. If you use these insults around dharma centers, communities or forums you are driving many people away from the dharma where they could otherwise find some respite from their pain.
I'm afraid to say, this view is so 2016. Those days are over. It's not possible to go back to that kind of discourse.
Why not?

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dorje » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:28 pm

Minobu wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:34 pm
Look those were the times they were born into...they set the stage for what we have today...they created a whole new paradigm for change in human rights and equality.

you want to focus on the times and call them down for it...fine thats your right and freedom to do so without going to jail or being hanged....wonder why you get to do that ? who enabled a system for you to do that...

It affected the whole world , what they did...for me is like from Above...inspired ...just as much as Mahayana teachings were inspired from Above...

So do you think they help inspire the French revolution?...I mean to focus on the dirt of the time and disregard the essence of law they created....
shame...
So a political system designed by and for wealthy white male landowners is inspired on par with Mahayana teaching? Motivations matter. It matters that the founding fathers of the USA were slave owners. It matters that they oversaw genocide of the native peoples. Obviously all nations are works in progress, but mythologizing the USA as a shining city on a hill ignores its historical context.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 pm
Why not?
The zeitgeist is trending elsewhere.

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egon
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by egon » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 pm
Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:13 pm
sherabpa wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:55 pm
You take seriously the concerns of the Trump base that led them to vote for him in the first place, which are primarily economic. You stop calling them morons, stupid, deplorables, and racists, which alienates them further and keeps reconciliation at bay. If you use these insults around dharma centers, communities or forums you are driving many people away from the dharma where they could otherwise find some respite from their pain.
I'm afraid to say, this view is so 2016. Those days are over. It's not possible to go back to that kind of discourse.
Why not?
I don't know whether it's possible or not, but a recent book has been published that has a pretty sensible take on the subject of how we got here.
Uncivil Agreement

Here's a quote from a New York Times opinion piecethat the author of the above linked book wrote earlier this month:

"Racial and religious animosity has been on display throughout American history, but it has rarely lined up so neatly along partisan lines. Gradually, the Republican Party has come to be associated with white, Christian, conservative, rural and male identity. Conversely, the Democratic Party is now more clearly the party of nonwhite, non-Christian, liberal, urban and female (or feminist) identity. I call this “social sorting,” or the development of “mega-partisan” identities.
Now, in each election, we are no longer fighting only for party victory. We are also fighting for the victory of the racial, religious, geographical and gender-based groups that win or lose with the party. Every election is a fight for larger portions of our self-concept — leading to an ever more desperate need for victory. Not only are victories more exciting, but losses are much more painful."
Lilliana Mason, June 6 2018

She's done actual evidence-based research on this to support her ideas, and at least one paper that she wrote is available online too.
Last edited by egon on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 pm
The very title of this thread has persuaded me that Trump is certain to win reelection. And you people will be the ones to do it, not his "base".
Really? And here is me thinking that the people that support a candidate's views and vote for them are the one's responsible for them being in power. I guess you learn something new every day.

It is not my fault if I point out that "you" are racist or a bigot or a fool. I am just pointing it out. It is up to "you" to work on these issues, if "you" wish too.

Either that or "you" can go find somebody that will validate your shortcomings and make you feel good about them. Basically, this is what a moron would do. An intelligent and logical person would look at their failings and try to amend them.

Facism is all about appealing to the lowest common denominator, to the basest wants and emotions. It thrives on stupid.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Sādhaka » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:47 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
Facism is all about appealing to the lowest common denominator, to the basest wants and emotions. It thrives on stupid.

In that case, every president we’ve ever had has been an fascist.

Because the influence of big-agri/biotech, big pharma, the military-industrial-complex, corporatism or better said corporatocracy, and banksterism, has been pretty much the same all across the board no matter who has been president and/or controlled congress.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:51 pm

Sādhaka wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:47 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
Facism is all about appealing to the lowest common denominator, to the basest wants and emotions. It thrives on stupid.

In that case, every president we’ve ever had has been an fascist.

Because the influence of big-agri/biotech, big pharma, the military-industrial-complex, corporatism or better said corporatocracy, and banksterism, has been pretty much the same all across the board no matter who has been president and/or controlled congress.
Corporatism is a form of Fascism.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Sādhaka » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:25 pm

I don’t think you’re incorrect on that point.

My point is, who would trump get replaced with? Only another bush, obama, or clinton?

Yea people like Bernie Sanders, Cynthia McKinney, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader might be a little better than all of the above; but I still think we’re going to have to do even better than that, to slow down the crash course that we’re on. Perhaps as Dharma practitioners, or aspiring ones, leaving politics alone altogether for now is the best course.

Or mostly focus on the issues that I mentioned in my previous post.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:28 am

Sādhaka wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:25 pm
I don’t think you’re incorrect on that point.

My point is, who would trump get replaced with? Only another bush, obama, or clinton?

Yea people like Bernie Sanders, Cynthia McKinney, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader might be a little better than all of the above; but I still think we’re going to have to do even better than that, to slow down the crash course that we’re on. Perhaps as Dharma practitioners, or aspiring ones, leaving politics alone altogether for now is the best course.

Or mostly focus on the issues that I mentioned in my previous post.
The reality is that we have to curb the power of the presidency. It has become unbalanced. This is the problem.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by kirtu » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:12 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:28 am
The reality is that we have to curb the power of the presidency. It has become unbalanced. This is the problem.
Individuals, even people taking collective action, cannot curb the power of the President of the United States. Congress alone can do that and usually with great difficulty. In the last admin a conservative, incrementalist President was opposed by an insane group in Congress who swore daily that said President was "a socialist". They did derail the conservative, incrementalist Democrat agenda to some extent but the President in question was usually able to get what he wanted in the end.

In this case the hyper-conservative majority is running things and is more or less happy with the current set of antics. So there is no hope of any change at all except possibly in the House after the first week in November.


Even then there is little hope of impeachment and that is the only real way this yahoo is doing to be dealt with in any substantive manner.

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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:45 am

How did that Twilight Zone end with the sadistic psychopathic kid with infinite power who terrorized his family and town (and planet)?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dorje » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:16 pm

In any case, it's complete nonsense that liberal venom towards Drumpf is souring independent support for Democratic candidates.
The Virginia elections, in particular, saw controversial anti-Trump messaging, like an ad from the Latino Victory Fund, a left-leaning political action committee, that featured a white man—in a pickup truck bearing a bumper sticker for the Republican nominee and a Confederate flag—menacing nonwhite children. Conservatives predicted a backlash that would doom Democrats and elect Republican Ed Gillespie as Virginians recoiled against “hateful” campaign materials. Instead, the Democratic nominee, Ralph Northam, won a 9-percentage-point victory over Gillespie, and Democrats won each statewide office and overcame Republican gerrymanders to nearly take control of the House of Delegates.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... pular.html
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Minobu
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Minobu » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:28 am
Sādhaka wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:25 pm
I don’t think you’re incorrect on that point.

My point is, who would trump get replaced with? Only another bush, obama, or clinton?

Yea people like Bernie Sanders, Cynthia McKinney, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader might be a little better than all of the above; but I still think we’re going to have to do even better than that, to slow down the crash course that we’re on. Perhaps as Dharma practitioners, or aspiring ones, leaving politics alone altogether for now is the best course.

Or mostly focus on the issues that I mentioned in my previous post.
The reality is that we have to curb the power of the presidency. It has become unbalanced. This is the problem.
well the supreme court of America decided to grant the ban on muslim countries on the fact the President of the United States has the power in national security to do so...Trump found the grand daddy of all loop holes to dictate what he wants to...in the name of national security he can enact anything at his will..even trade tarriffs...

Harley-Davidson will be ‘taxed like never before’ if production moved overseas, Trump threatens on Twitter

Trump revs up Harley-Davidson fight into second day

Trump denies he's to blame for Harley-Davidson decision

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Minobu
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Minobu » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:28 pm


So a political system designed by and for wealthy white male landowners is inspired on par with Mahayana teaching? Motivations matter. It matters that the founding fathers of the USA were slave owners. It matters that they oversaw genocide of the native peoples. Obviously all nations are works in progress, but mythologizing the USA as a shining city on a hill ignores its historical context.
I tried to explain to you they were a product of that system...they enacted change...change came about...
for me it is from the same altruistic power base as Mahayana...i never said it is on par...why would i? but i believe the enlightened ones affect the human condition on many levels....


there is no way you can say what the forefathers started was anything but enlightened thought at the time...
yeah slaves were being bought and sold...but somehow change was enacted...it's still young...humans have and still have slaves since the beginning ...
we just had a Black president...thats change dude.

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Grigoris
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:55 pm

Minobu wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:56 pm
I tried to explain to you they were a product of that system...they enacted change...change came about...
for me it is from the same altruistic power base as Mahayana...i never said it is on par...why would i? but i believe the enlightened ones affect the human condition on many levels....


there is no way you can say what the forefathers started was anything but enlightened thought at the time...
yeah slaves were being bought and sold...but somehow change was enacted...it's still young...humans have and still have slaves since the beginning ...
we just had a Black president...thats change dude.
You do realise that things change for the worse too? Like if you ask the Native Americans if they think the change enacted by white illegal immigrants was positive, I am sure they will have some things to say to you. If you asked them if the change is offset by or counteracted by the election of a black president a few hundred years later, I think you know what their response will be.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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